Customize shortcuts?

Q & A for the old 2X Explorer file manager. For other topics, please use the corresponding forum.

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wiler
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Customize shortcuts?

Post by wiler »

Hi,

I would like to have two shortcuts for directory file browsing:

Ctrl + n => move one item (file/dir) down
Ctrl + p => move one item (file/dire) up

(Derivated from the emacs shortcuts for moving the cursor up/down)

Can I customize this somewhere?

Thanks,
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MaxBlux
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Post by MaxBlux »

I've searched high and low and there appears to be no facility for configuring hotkeys to the user's preference.

But consider the following excerpts from the help file:

1) 2xExplorer is also known as the "keyboard-junkie's"-Explorer.

2) 2xExplorer caters for the needs of a sizeable portion of computer users who prefer the keyboard for applications they use daily. With long term use it is easy to memorise the keyboard equivalents of most frequently used commands, which enable one to do things with lightning speed compared to using the mouse - that's the typical "man or mouse" dilemma. Why bother with target practising or do battles with clogged up and foul mouse roller balls, when paradise is just an arm's length away? 2xExplorer won't test your patience when you use it daily, even after the initial impressions have been long since worn off. That's the recipe for healthy long-term "relationships" IMHO

These are beautiful sentiments and there is much truth and power in them.

But do you see the problem with using hotkeys but providing no ability to configure them?

The problem is that if you use more than one app at the same time, the hotkeys from each app can and will conflict with each other.

Anyone who has even a tiny bit of experience working with hotkeys knows this. Some apps define hotkeys as only being active when the app is active. But the more useful definition leaves a hotkey active no matter which app is active. So if two different apps both try to defin "Ctrl N" as a system wide hotkey, one of them will be out of luck.

So anyone who would express those beautiful sentiments but not provide any mechanism for configuring the hotkey selection, has either never used more than one app at a time or does not really use hotkeys.

2xExplorer is a beautiful app and in 98% of its operation, it is superior to Windows Explorere and is close to deserving "superstar status". But it can't get there without providing configurable hotkeys.

But there is clearly something wrong with the sentiments expressed about hotkeys versus the fact that they can't be configured.

I apologize if I am mistaken and there is some way to configure the hotkey selections. But I've looked extensively and the documentation reads in such a way that the author seems to think his choices for the hotkeys are the best/only ones possible.
wiler
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What about explorer^2

Post by wiler »

What about explorer^2. I assume it´s the next major release of 2xexplorer?!

Is it cabable of configurable hotkeys?
narayan
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Post by narayan »

Wiler, development for 2xExplorer is discontibued. its successor Xplorer2 ("x2") is in beta stage now. There will be a shareware version, too.


In x2, both CTRL+N and CTRL+P are used for launching a clone and "printing" filenames, respectively.

Not for nothing is x2 called "keyboard junkie's application"!

BTW a lot more features are yet to come in x2. We need the remaining key combinations for important ones in that forthcoming group...
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fgagnon
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Post by fgagnon »

narayan wrote:Not for nothing is x2 called "keyboard junkie's application"!

BTW a lot more features are yet to come in x2. We need the remaining key combinations for important ones in that forthcoming group...
Because real keyboard junkies have more than 2x/x² products which we use, we each have evolved our own favourite pattern of which key-combo's to use for what.

So, although the 2x/x² key-combo's are generally well-thought-out mnemonically, it would be a definite PLUS for users to be able to configure them for our individual preferences - especially non-English-speaking users, where totally different mappings make more sense.

I will expect this feature in a future version of xplorer² :)
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nikos
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Post by nikos »

unfortunately all these customizations ain't easy to program
but you can always use a program like resource hacker to change all accelerators to your taste!
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Not Easy to Implement?

Post by MaxBlux »

I don't know why you say they are not easy to implement.

They are one of the easiest things I've ever implemented.

If you use the API function RegisterHotkey to implement system-wide hotkeys, that function is extremely simple to use. It only takes four parms.

The only challenge is to make a list of all the keys and modifier combinations and it is difficult to get all of them exactly right. But no one expects them all. If you just allow some of the common keys that are found on most keyboards together with the 16 combinations of the four mod keys, that will be more than enough.

I've never used Resource Hacker. I've never even heard of it. But I'm off to try and track it down. I will try to report back on my experience with that.

I want to re-iterate that as far as I'm concerned. 2xExplorer is a beautiful product and I only have a problem with two issues that I would consider to be lacking. Configurable hotkeys is the most important.

If you are no longer supporting 2xExplorere, then it would appear to be a dead issue.

I have written a complete hotkey manager in Delphi and would be happy to send you my code for implementing configurable hotkeys. But I have a feeling you are a more experienced technical person than I am. So I doubt my code would be of much benefit to you.
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Post by narayan »

Flexible hotkeys are useful when the application has many free keys; especially in a close group like the Fn keys.

But when practically every key is assigned to some function (and some keys like F1 even taking up multiple roles), I don't think any tweaking will be necessary/possible.

Even all the Fn keys (with SHFT, CTRL) are pretty nearly used up.

The only think possible tweaking would be to unassign a key, and then re-assign it to something else.

Rather than do that, better to remember the default setting.

As to systemwide hotkeys, applications like Wordweb or MWSnap have real needs for them. Can you name a specific example where x2 has to be invoked from within another application?
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fgagnon
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Post by fgagnon »

narayan wrote:The only think possible tweaking would be to unassign a key, and then re-assign it to something else.
Precisely!
- - That's the intent of remapping (vs. assigning additional keys to a given function)

And I also had in mind swapping the Ctrl+ with the Shift+ in a couple of instances where they are currently assigned opposite to my intuition for copy & move.
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Post by narayan »

I see a very limited use of this; but some people could use it fruitfully to avoid conflict with other systemwide applications (such as MWsnap and WordWeb)
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Post by MaxBlux »

narayan wrote:Can you name a specific example where x2 has to be invoked from within another application?
It's not about "real needs". It's about power, flexibility and imagination.

Just because one person cannot see a "real need" for something don't mean other people can't get great benefits from it.

I would love to hit "Alt-Ctl-C" or some other key of my choosing to open 2xExplorer wih the focus on the C drive - no matter what I was doing at the time. Same goes for any other drives - in other words - a system wide hotkey.

So if I'm in the CMD shell and notice something strange about text files on the E drive (which happens fairly often for me), I'd like to hit a single hotkey which in turn would execute a series of hotkeys that would open 2xExp, position it at the E drive, and use file filters to display all text files in the root dir. I do this sort of thing all the time with my hotkey manager.

As someone eles in this thread noted, the problem is not so much in configuring 2xExp to get it to do something for me, but to unconfigure one of its' accelerators so that it doesn't conflict with my set of system-wide hotkeys.

I apologize if this is not all very clear. It takes a considerable effort to see the real potential of hotkeys and a lot of work to create a system using a generalized hotkey manager that enables you to automate most of the common tasks so that you can perform most of those common tasks with a single stroke - instantly.

In other words, I'd like to be able to define a hotkey that would be system-wde, and would invoke 2xExp in a specific configuration. Using the traditional approach to accelerators, I have to invoke 2xExp on my own and then point it to the folder I want. For most people this involves pressing several keys or a good deal of mouse movements. Why not do it in a single stroke - instantly - if it's something you do fairly ofent and you have the brain power to visualize how to do it?

A good hotkey manager empowers people with "executable hotkeys" so that I could link several hotkeys together and invoke 2xExp and then have it do something - like perhaps list all text files in a specific folder and perhaps also select all of them that meet a certain criteria - all with a single stroke.

It may be hard for you to see how such a thing is possible with one stroke. But IMO the main purpose of PCs is automation. And if you give people the capabilities, they will certainly figure out how to automate the things they do most often so - ideally - they can do each of those things instantly.

Sorry if I seem to be a little "hot under the collar" but it makes me nuts when people try to limit other peoples' creativity and capabilities and - sadly - I see it all the time every day.

The purpose of hotkeys is to do things instantly - in one stroke.

I wouldn't expect Nikos to implement chained hotkeys or executable hotkeys. But if the package contains configurable hotkeys, I can set the hotkeys how I like and then use a general purpose hotkey manager (there are many freeware hotkey managers) to make 2xExplorer do many useful things for me - each with a single stroke - instantly.

The beauty of hotkeys is that they open up new capabilities for people. Please beware of the mindset that attempts to restrict capabilities by claiming they are not absolutely necessary.

Once you enable people to open new capabilities, it is amazing what they will come up with.
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nikos
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Post by nikos »

i thought you were talking about reconfiguring the internal keyboard accelerators that correspond to 2x's commands

global "hotkeys" are quite easy; just create shortcuts and place them on the desktop, and pick a key combination in the property page. There are also tons of programs that do global hotkeys. But be careful not to eat keys that correspond to internal commands
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Post by fgagnon »

I agree with MaxBlux in principle, but on the other hand I was speaking of the other case: wanting to reconfigure some of the internal keyboard shortcuts (as was, I believe, the original poster wiler in this thread)
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Post by MaxBlux »

Nikos,

There are many problems with using hotkeys in the way you describe.

First of all, it was good you specified to place the shortcut on the desktop because the restrictions imposed on global hotkey as implemented by the Windows Explorer (talking about the explorer program - not the file manager called Windows Explorer).

The one restriction is that in order to define a "shortcut key", the shortcut must exist on the desktop or under the Start menu. I won't spend much time ranting about why this restriction is a problem - but it seems fairly obvious that given that Explorer is the program that manages the desktop, taskbar and system tray's graphical representation, the designers would want to limit hotkey combinations to objects that Explorer owns.

The big problem comes when you try to create a system involving a great number of hotkeys - especially if you use hotkeys to switch between sets of organized hotkeys. There is no way to see all the hotkeys defined or any reasonable way to mangage duplicates or resolve conflicts.

It seems so sad to me that someone would be handed responsibility for something like "global hotkeys" but not actually have much experience using it.

I'm not criticising Nikos for not understanding the problems with the method he suggests. It can take many months using hotkeys before it becomes clear there is a critical problem using the hotkeys implemented by Windows Explorer. The author of Windows Hotkeys implemented something that he thought would be good. He may have tested it thoroughly too. But it's a good lesson that software is best imlemented by people who use it often and over a long period. Otherwise, it's just too difficult to miss the problems that arise for the people who really depend on the software and use it all the time over a long period.

There are many other problems using hotkeys as defined by the Windows Explorer. There is almost zero documentation and when a new mod key was introlduced (the Win key) it opened up a huge can of worms.

Certain Win key combinations can be disabled in XP although (Win+L and Win+U) some are exempted from the registry tweak that disables them. Here is that tweak for anyone who wants to know:

Key for disabling Win key shortcuts - registry tweak
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer
NoWinKeys REG_DWORD 0x00000001 (1)

But this tweak only applies to XP. Other Windows users are out of luck.

For someone who depends on hotkeys and uses them all the time, the best solution is an open source freeware manager so I can see how all the mod keys are handled and fix the problems. I know of at least three freeware opensource hotkey managers but I'm reluctant to post links to them here lest Nikos might object.

I don't think they are in any way competition for 2xExplorer and they are not hard to find with a Google search.

But to clarify my request, the thing I'd like to see is a facility for the accelerator keys used by 2xExp to be configured according to the user's preferences. So, for example, under the Edit menu, the item "Find Target" is defined by the accelerator key "Ctrl L". I would like the capability of changing that to some other key name or perhaps even disabling it entirely.
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zippit
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hotkey to C drive

Post by zippit »

This topic doesn't cover my needs,but just to comment.Wherever you close 2X is where it will open next time,and changeing directories by clicking the top of the Window are 2 of my favorite features.
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