what price quality?

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shall we increase the price of x2 to $40?

yes, and make me a shareholder plz
4
80%
no, I think it will hurt your income overall
1
20%
 
Total votes: 5

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nikos
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what price quality?

Post by nikos » 2013 Aug 23, 17:25

I am considering raising the price of xplorer2 from 30->40 (and likewise for the ultimate version). xplorer2 is selling $30 since its conception 10 years ago, and nowadays it is the cheapest file manager out there

prices are funny things, sometimes you may get more $ selling at a lower price (by increasing the volume of sales). But sometimes by increasing the price you sell more, because people may believe that an increased price would mean a better quality product (my mum feels so anyway, go figure human psychology :)

anyway, I thought I'd ask your honest opinion, do you think it is a good idea (that is will zabkat and son become richer) or not?

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Re: what price quality?

Post by drac » 2013 Aug 23, 18:10

I guess this is not pertinent, but just how rich is Zabkat and how rich does it realistically need to be?

I would object, in principle to the proportion of the increase: 33%. Possibly a 15% - 20% increase might be more reasonable. Then there is the question of upgrades. What would those cost to existing users? It is likely that you will get more of your income from selling upgrades (and possibly t-shirts, coffee mugs and the like) to existing users than you will get from new users. While there is the psychology of people thinking a more expensive item is "better" than a lower priced one. That psychology is usually based on the fact that most of the time it is true. There are several other file managers that one could group as competitors to X2. Closing the price gap (if any) would probably not hurt sales to new users. But you would still want to be SLIGHTLY lower to swing the more frugal buyer toward your product.

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Re: what price quality?

Post by dunno » 2013 Aug 24, 05:53

Expensive does not always equate to better quality, and therein lies the rub, is open source or freeware inferior to shareware ?.

Is Shareware Linux better than a Free Linux distro ?.
A friend bought a Red hat Distro thinking that because he paid for the distro it would just plug and play, err wrong....

Do developers spend more time resolving "bugs" if their software is more expensive ?.
Adobe Is hellishly expensive, bloated, unintuitive, buggy. Is photoshop worth it's price ?.
Why do developers include easter eggs in their software, surely they could put that time to better use, like fixing fvcking bugs within the same software, and the user pays for those easter eggs...

When I need a application I look around for something that's for free from a reputable source, If there's nothing "free" which will fulfil my needs I'll then look for something that I can try before I buy. If I have to choose between a $100 or a $50 application I will go for the cheaper version if it satisfies my criteria. I will try to ensure that the cheaper version doesn't have annoying "bread and butter" bugs via forums and google.
Last edited by dunno on 2013 Aug 24, 06:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: what price quality?

Post by nikos » 2013 Aug 24, 05:56

in terms of price pshychology, $35 and $39.99 is the same. So there is no point increasing the price to $33.
for existing users there would be no difference, especially for those that own the free lifetime upgrades cover

since you asked, zabkat is doing fine, not millionaire fine, but "I can't complaint" fine -- because I am the only person to feed right now. If it would generate more money perhaps I could afford to hire somebody to add all these numerous requests you guys have :)
you would still want to be SLIGHTLY lower to swing the more frugal buyer toward your product
when you go to the super market do you always buy the cheapest e.g. coffee? sometimes being cheapest equates in consumer minds as "crappiest"

I don't say that there is any causal relationship between price and quality, setting prices is just a game marketers play to maximize overall profits

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Re: what price quality?

Post by dunno » 2013 Aug 24, 06:21

nikos wrote: when you go to the super market do you always buy the cheapest e.g. coffee? sometimes being cheapest equates in consumer minds as "crappiest"
ah yes, label snobs should look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9J1b3MqiX8

see also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClFPH7BVSUE

Every housewife knows that the house brand is sometimes of even quality to the most expensive.

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Re: what price quality?

Post by drac » 2013 Aug 24, 20:16

Nikos,

Price point IS a marketing game. And when selling millions of items (like coffee) there is a lot of room for experimentation and trial runs to find the best price point. In a relatively low volume category, it is harder to do that. I did say SLIGHTLY (in caps) when suggesting your pricing compare to the competition. For some reason MANY products seem to think that 39.95 appears to be smaller than 40. The fact that so many products have that kind of pricing suggests either it works or that people are just conditioned to it. If your competitors are selling for 39.95, try selling for 37.95. There is no rule that says prices need to align on amounts ending with 0 or 5.

For me if there are a bunch of products selling in the range of $89 (plus or minus $10) and there is one selling for $49, then the people looking for the cheapest option may go for the $49 product. Or those leery of a low price may avoid that one. But a 15% range is generally small enough (though not when buying a large TV or an automobile) so that the product will not be perceived as "cheap" in quality.

If you are winning (or at least in the top 2) independent, authoritative reviews of file managers, that slightly lower price will get you more business (IMHO). If you are coming in third or lower, people will not choose your product if it is priced the same as the top rated product. If you are the top rated AND the least expensive you will get more sales, but you will be leaving money on the table.

Your first priority should be to get your product (X2) in the top place of the respected reviewers list. To do that you have to read THEIR reviews of your product and your competitors product and see what THEY say is missing from yours or better in your competitors. Then put aside you ego and make the needed changes. OR you can continue doing it your way and not increase your total profits significantly. When I first purchased X2 I told you about one feature in my previous file manager that I considered superior to X2's approach. Your response was to show me how I could accomplish the same thing in X2. The X2 approach was complicated compared to the very simple, yet powerful feature in my previous program. I use X2 as my main file manager, but when I need to sync files between folders I still use my old program (Powerdesk). That is all I use that old program for. But I don't delete it just because of that one function.

IMHO X2 is a fantastic program. However it is too complicated in some areas for ME. I am sure Kilmatead has no problems with it but if you only aim for super sophisticated users then you are limiting your market.
Last edited by drac on 2013 Aug 24, 20:25, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: what price quality?

Post by wperkins99 » 2013 Aug 24, 20:22

So, you have found out how much kids *really* cost, huh?...

http://www.babycenter.com/cost-of-raisi ... calculator

(This is for the U.S., but you get the idea. For me, it calculated $344K for one child through college.)

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Re: what price quality?

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Aug 24, 22:58

drac wrote:However it is too complicated in some areas [...] I am sure Kilmatead has no problems with it but if you only aim for super sophisticated users then you are limiting your market.
If I dropped my lolly in a pile of sand and ants, is it still safe to eat?

I am reserving my opinion on this topic-proper for now, but as I have pointed out before, I am an unemployed bricklayer - thus, in all fairness, you have a seriously skewed idea of what qualifies as a "sophisticated user".

As it happens I don't use x2 for syncing things either - I use a freakishly more confusing proper programme solution for that. I have always been pro-modularity, and anti-collectivism when it comes to the x2 design ethos (do you think anyone actually uses the built-in mass renamer?). Your assumption of a preferred Powerdesk-paradigm is a common complaint amongst its former communist-era users when they discover that freedom these days within a filesystem context requires a broader outlook from the user, not the developer. :wink:

That said, I'm not disagreeing with you - sometimes Nikos is seriously disconnected from reality (and thus commerce) when it comes to listening to what users actually want - and as wildly impractical as that is, it's probably the only thing that keeps x2 from sinking into the shiny quagmire of iPhone fluff that everyone else seems to be abusing in the downward spiral of competing for users in a dwindling pool of mediocrity.

The desktop-paradigm is dying (evidenced by the decline/death of desktop/laptop-computing sales and the corporate withdrawal from the enthusiast market), so anyone who wants to make money off the back of it would probably be better off investing in that Coffee mentioned earlier, rather than counting all their chickens by making a better mousetrap. :shrug:

There is a black tsunami of idiocy coming to this industry, and the death of hardware sales is only the beginning - it's only a matter of time before the sphere of intellectual development goes over the dumbing-down edge (as its already beginning to by popular demand) and "we are become a wasteland".

But I'm just an unsophisticated pessimistic bricklayer, reserving his opinion for now, so que sçay-je?

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Re: what price quality?

Post by nikos » 2013 Aug 25, 05:25

I think I'll just increase the price of the lifetime cover warranties, so if anybody needs it, get it before it goes up!

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Re: what price quality?

Post by dunno » 2013 Aug 25, 07:44

Kilmatead wrote: There is a black tsunami of idiocy coming to this industry, and the death of hardware sales is only the beginning - it's only a matter of time before the sphere of intellectual development goes over the dumbing-down edge (as its already beginning to by popular demand) and "we are become a wasteland".
Amen.

I'm astounded at my 40'ish friends trying to be hip by facevooking everything that happens, most annoying is the incessant camera flashes trying to caputre the most "priceless" pic for their facevook, a quick mention of libel has quelled the most exuberant of happy facevooking snappers.

My point is that most of the folks I know are only interested in "swipe, pich, zoom" they really really couldn't care less about the intricacies of a application.

There's loads of money to be made from a app that can capture users data for restoration when all goes crash....
Kilmatead wrote: But I'm just an unsophisticated pessimistic bricklayer, reserving his opinion for now, so que sçay-je?
you're a brickie and yet you still drilled into power lines ....... how the fu..

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Re: what price quality?

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Aug 25, 08:00

dunno wrote:you're a brickie and yet you still drilled into power lines ....... how the fu..
See? I told you I was unsophisticated! :oops: And it was a kango, not a drill. And, as I pointed out at the time, the lines had not been buried to the appropriate depth requisite of safety measures, so how was I to know?

Brickies are not Morlocks!
Last edited by Kilmatead on 2013 Aug 25, 08:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: what price quality?

Post by nikos » 2013 Aug 25, 08:27

let's face it, a file manager like xplorer2 isn't a "consumer product". It isn't the type that would apply to hipsters looking for the latest cool app. It is a tool for the more advanced user

the desktop industry is going down the drain though, with all these touchpads and ipads and what have you, so all us here are living fossils... if I can make money from x2 till I'm 50 (milestone fast approaching :)) I will be more than happy. Otherwise I'll join kilmatead in the dole queue!

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Re: what price quality?

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Aug 25, 08:43

nikos wrote:It is a tool for the more advanced user...
Yes, except you seem to have a hard time realising that not all users are advanced in the same way - whilst the majority of requests you get are usually solipsistic ones (those that are peculiar to that single user, who inevitably overestimates the value to others) your constant fall-back position of "workaround" suggestions wears a little thin sometimes, and leads you to consistently underestimate both the possible and the obvious values any given implementation may have in the abstract!

And without doubt, that proclivity of fear has lost you users, not gained any. If people don't feel their suggestions are taken seriously, they are not engaged; if they're not engaged, they're less likely to recommend a product to others.

Bits-du-jour always looks like desperation to me, and that's what makes something look cheap - not the price itself. :shrug: Que sçay-je...

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Re: what price quality?

Post by nikos » 2013 Aug 25, 10:04

If people don't feel their suggestions are taken seriously, they are not engaged
I am not insensitive to suggestions, but I am working for all the users and not just the vocal minority. I am in charge of the whole picture. Show me a suggestion I ignored, that isn't in close inspection a tinsy winsy piece of fetiche in the scheme of things!

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Re: what price quality?

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Aug 25, 10:46

Now don't use those kind of keywords (us over-fetishised vocal-minority are aware of your misdirections!) to think that I'm talking about my own requests. You've been more than generous with stuff I request because I "give back" in my own way (developers appreciate that sort of nonsense), so I'm not complaining.

But I would suggest you use xyplorer for a day or two just to see what is available when people click around trying to customise things. x2 is downright anaemic when it comes to obvious "quick-access" changes, and so on.

I would also invite anyone who ever had a suggestion ignored to refresh your memory. Do you not keep a running list of "requests" going back 10 years or so? When was the last time you added any of them (without "someone" starting a peasant's revolt over the issue)? Instead you spent an enormous amount of time adding WDS stuff that no one ever requested, and that you yourself once openly deprecated.

Actually, I lied - you're right, you aren't insensitive to suggestions - you can (sometimes) be downright hostile to them by your insistence that "workarounds" are actually still a valid behaviour model. Sometimes you seem to think that the world never moved on from the early days of XP when every-man-for-himself was considered a bold ethos. :shrug:

<My, those gadflies are pesky today, aren't they?> :wink:

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