Scrap operations

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RightPaddock
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Re: Scrap operations

Post by RightPaddock » 2013 Nov 03, 21:25

@Kilmatead - I nuked my keyboard customisations and the Escape worked as you describe, it returns me to the most recent 'main pane'.

So I've restored the 'must have' customisations and it's still OK, there were customisations I'd forgotten about so I gave them a decent burial. I also removed the Backtab shortcut, which is what was taking me into to Address Bar. On reflection I suspect my problem existed in 1.8, but I never had the Address Bar enabled in 1.8 so I never backstabbed into it.

I must intuitively want Backtab to do something else - now it does nothing maybe perhaps I'll realise what that something is :rolleyes:

So that's dealt with one annoyance.

Now I know that the X2 Window jumping on top isn't a 'just me' issue, I'll try to find a consistent pattern. As I said my perception is that it happens most frequently if I open a small image (eg 800x600px) with IV from within a zip - at a guess I'd say 50% of the time.

RP
Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) version 1809 - Xplorer2 version: Pro 2.5.0.4 [Unicode] x64 2014-06-21

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nikos
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Re: Scrap operations

Post by nikos » 2013 Nov 04, 06:46

the difference between you two guys is that one has explorer autocompletion on, and the other doesn't.

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Nov 04, 07:39

I hate complex systems. The world (and the people in it) were better off when it boiled down to "a successful hunt meant the village was well fed" / "a failed hunt meant you and your children starved".

'Twas always thus, and always thus will be.

Until x2 came along with its weird "butterfly effect" of ticking one box causing a flood in the Mojave Desert unbeknownst to the user, and ticking another meant "the other guy" got the girl.

It's not fair. Bloody settings. :roll:

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by RightPaddock » 2013 Nov 04, 10:57

nikos wrote:the difference between you two guys is that one has explorer autocompletion on, and the other doesn't.
Reading the manual I gather that "explorer autocompletion" has something to do with the address bar.

I have no idea what the three modes are about because until I recently read something here about finder and the Filter Box I never even had the Address Bar displayed - so as far as I know my setting for "explorer autocompletion" is as it comes out of the box. I never have and have no desire to enter anything into the address bar. Its only on show because I want to enjoy the benefits of the Filter Box and like the man sang "This I tell ya, brother, you can't have one without the other."

I can confirm that opening small images in a zip by double click or enter generates the 'z-order problem' on ~60% of occasions, but opening the same images in the same zip via menukey/o never generates the 'z-order problem'. The tests were done on about 20 jpegs in each of 4 zips containing up to a 100 jpeg's and 8-12 txt files, using two image viewers IrfanView and FastPictureViewer. I also looked at most of the of the small text files (< 2000 bytes) in the same zips with Notepad++ - the 'zorder problem' never manifested on those files, ie Notepad++ always came out on top. And I viewed the same images with IV and FPV from within WinRar and the problem never manifested.

As I previously indicated I most often (only ?) get the problem when opening an image from within a zip using the Enter Key or double click, and its more likely to happen on smallish images than on larger images. I can only report what I see, I haven't got the foggiest idea why this is happening. Until Kilmatead mentioned the problem and referred me to posts from 2009 I'd been assuming it was something external to X2 and peculiar to my system. Given I can tap menukey/o as quick as I can tap Enter it wasn't worth my time investigating it. I can't recall it happening under 1.8 but maybe I wasn't peeking at images in zips as much as I am on this reorganise project.

Tomorrow my time, I will repeat the tests with the Address Bar hidden, but I am fairly certain it was happening before I ticked View->Toolbars->Address Bar about 10 days ago. But that will be all that I'll do, so long as menukey/o works I don't really care about the problem. But perhaps I've provided some clues to help resolve the issue - 4 years is a long time. I know of at least one glitch that's been in Word 2003, 2007, 2010 and 2013 and I think it might have even been in Word '97, so maybe 4 years is not so long.

With X2 you can drill into a zip and delete files normally via Del & Shift/Del, but you cannot rename them normally via F2. With X2 you can flatten and browse a folder tree in a scrap pane, where you can rename files normally via F2, but you cannot delete files normally via Del & Shift/Del - such is life.

RP
Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) version 1809 - Xplorer2 version: Pro 2.5.0.4 [Unicode] x64 2014-06-21

Kilmatead
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Re: Scrap operations

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Nov 04, 12:03

For what it's worth, the Tools -> Options -> (Advanced Tab) Explorer Style Path AutoCompletion palaver is activated by default, so you must have un-ticked it sometime in the distant past, probably assuming it would be one less process-cycle x2 would use in the pursuit of something you could care less about. :wink:

I wouldn't expect Nikos to worry himself over how 3rd-party programmes respond to the 'z-order' bug (considering that Windows does have registry aspects to adjust it, at least superficially) but I find it more pertinent that it happens to obfuscate x2 sub-windows itself - that's more annoying.

For example I use Windows Picture Viewer (or whatever the built-in thing is called) and it never suffers the z-order block, nor does WinRAR or other programmes proffering small windows.

Nikos will no doubt respond with his usual dismissive "It works fine for me" response, so I wouldn't expect a "fix" anytime soon. Though it is curious that it always revolves around x2 - I don't recall other programmes smothering their own children (though I did do a school report once on a salamander type-thing called the Hellbender of which the male of the species was known to eat his own children if he was left alone with them - but I doubt that 30-year-old school project is related to this). :shrug: :wink:

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by RightPaddock » 2013 Nov 04, 13:10

Kilmatead wrote:For what it's worth, the Tools -> Options -> (Advanced Tab) Explorer Style Path AutoCompletion palaver is activated by default, so you must have un-ticked it sometime in the distant past, probably assuming it would be one less process-cycle x2 would use in the pursuit of something you could care less about. :wink:
See attachment, as far as I know its ever been thus - checked.

I tend not to change things about which I know nothing - and seeing as it is do with something I've never used or even enabled until very recently I barely knew it existed - I still don't understand what it does, and I don't see its relevance to this thread. I guess I could uncheck it and see what difference it makes.

I don't use Scrap that much - browse flat is about all, I cannot recall ever having the main X2 window jump up in front of one though.

RP
Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) version 1809 - Xplorer2 version: Pro 2.5.0.4 [Unicode] x64 2014-06-21

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Nov 04, 13:22

Curious - it's only when I un-tick that option that I can reproduce the <Tab> key switching focus to filtering; when activated, <Tab> only does the "auto-completion" dance, or, if there's nary a tune for dancing, it does naught. :shrug:

Just out of z-order interest, if you select a single-item (anything will do), and press <Ctrl+S> does a maxipad container open in front of or behind the main x2 window? Mine are unendingly and stubbornly always shunted behind, which taxes my all too tired soul daily.

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by FrizzleFry » 2013 Nov 04, 15:50

Using Ctrl-S (or the to scrap toolbar button) does open a scrap and then return the main x2 window to the front not matter how many items are selected... Alt-Tab takes me to the scrap so it has never bothered me... I assume the reason for this behavior is so that you can add more items to the scrap which I usually do since I mostly send files to a scrap to find dups with files from different folders...

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by Kilmatead » 2013 Nov 04, 17:15

<Alt+Tab> is the devil's own spawn, especially when you have - say - 12 applications open at once.

You think this behaviour is by design? I doubt that - how could Nikos stumble through the dark (bashing his already mis-shapen nose on the fridge) with every other ergonomic approach he's ever made, and then actually have the foresight to re-focus a window anticipating the user's forward momentum?

Not possible. :D

(Glad it's not just me though - I haven't stooped to messing with ForegroundLockTimeout in the registry with this [otherwise clean] install of Windows yet, on the odd chance it screws it up more or offers reprieve.)

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by RightPaddock » 2013 Nov 05, 05:19

Kilmatead wrote:Curious - it's only when I un-tick that option that I can reproduce the <Tab> key switching focus to filtering; when activated, <Tab> only does the "auto-completion" dance, or, if there's nary a tune for dancing, it does naught. :shrug:
Sorry mate I have no idea what you're talking about. So far I can't see what difference that option makes, maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, maybe its something to do with you using ultimate and me using pro. When I read the manual it was going on about typing paths, I don't type paths, I walk on them :D

If I want to find all the files in the current pane with 'river' in the name I type 'river'. The string 'river' ends up in the Filter box, and folders & files with the 'river' in the name are listed. Then I do what ever I wanted to do with 'river' objects - zip 'em up, dump symlinks to them somewhere, trash 'em - whatever. Then I do a control J and type 'bridge' and.... My only minor gripe is that Control J does not clear the Filter box

I think I'll put that autocomplete option back to the way its always been - on.

And I can't imagine how that setting could have anything to do with my requests - 1) delete things in scrap normally with the Del key, and 2) flatten a folder to one of the two main panes in the main X2 window. Did you not notice that Nikos only introduced it as red herring after I had resolved my escape proof address bar problem by nuking the 'far too many' keyboard barnacles I had clinging to this maxi-pane browser called X2.
Kilmatead wrote:Just out of z-order interest, if you select a single-item (anything will do), and press <Ctrl+S> does a maxipad container open in front of or behind the main x2 window? Mine are unendingly and stubbornly always shunted behind, which taxes my all too tired soul daily.
Always in front - tried a combination of big, small, one, few, and many files and folders - same result- in front, always - I'd love to tell you how cometh that then, but I haven't the foggiest idea - some things will forever remain unfathomable.

RP
Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) version 1809 - Xplorer2 version: Pro 2.5.0.4 [Unicode] x64 2014-06-21

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Re: Scrap operations

Post by RightPaddock » 2013 Nov 13, 23:42

@Kilmatead - FYI

I had an occurrence of the 'open behind X2' behaviour on a Browse Flat Scrap Pane. At the time my AV was doing its morning chores, and I had a long running job wandering around a sql database, so the system was a bit sluggish.

And, I found a "cure" for the 'open behind X2' behaviour when I open small jpgs from within an archive.

For an unrelated purpose I changed IrfanView's View->Display options setting from Fit window to image to Fit images to window and forgot to change it back again. After which I noticed the 'open behind X2" behaviour referred to above was no longer apparent. So I made a similar change to FastPictureViewer's settings and made it the default jpg viewer - same story, no more 'open behind X2'. Changed them both back Fit window to image' and the 'open behind X2' behaviour was back.

RP
Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) version 1809 - Xplorer2 version: Pro 2.5.0.4 [Unicode] x64 2014-06-21

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