New to xplorer2

[hel]

Hi,
I am trialing xplorer2 and have some questions.

Is it possible to get another caption? Normal display of folders and files is in the form drive:\folderpath\folder, but in xplorer2, it is folder @ path # [parent folder # drive] or something, which for me does not contain any information since I do not understand this mix. I just see that in the [], it is the inactive pane, but that does not make it much better. Can I set this to something normal? If not, can I hide all this, at least, so that the caption just shows xplorer2, without any path or folder? It is not really needed, since there is path-folder indication on top of each pane, too.


I want to use F5 and F6 for Copy and Move without (!) dialog, as is possible in other file managers. So I tried to reassign the relevant shortkeys. They are in the menu Customize keyboard-Edit-Copy to and Move to, respectively. I was astonished that there were no different commands there, but that F5, control-F5 and Alt-F5 (ditto for F6) were all together in the same shortkey assignment pane, for "Copy to", and I would have expected those different shortkeys in different panes, for different commands.

From the three, F5, control-F5 and alt-F5, I deleted F5 (ditto for F6), then reassigned F6, in MacroExpress, to control-F6, since from my understanding, F5/F6 are with dialog, since control-F5/F6 are without dialog, and as said, I want F5 and F6 to be without dialog, so they should do what control-F5/F6 do: Copy/Move to the other pane, or more precisely, to the folder displayed in the opposite pane.

What I get, though, from F6, by MacroExpress, is Copy to the other pane, instead of Move to the other pane, when those folders are on different drives, and I checked my macro assignment, I did not mix up the two commands.

Even when folders are on different drives, I want files to be moved, by F6, not copied, since move and copy are different commands, and I would press F5 if I wanted to copy. So I do not know what's going on here, and anyway, I think in the shortkey assignment pane, there should be listed additional commands, without mixing F5, control-F5 and alt-F5 (ditto for F6) within the same assignment pane.

As it is, I fear that I will not even get a straight Move to opposite pane by F6, even with MacroExpress?


Since F6 copied files, instead of moving, I then had to delete them from the original folder, so I tried to compare folders since in the original folder, there were other files, too, I had not had selected for moving, so I could not simply delete anything now from the original folder. Here, I had to realize that this folder compare did not work as expected from my experience with other file managers, I mean identical files were not colored within the two panes, but xplorer2 opened two scratch panes or something, in which then I would have to do the comparison and the deletions. I ended up with opening Freecommander, and did the comparison and the deletion in there. So my question is, is the use of self-opening scratch panes for such commands as file comparison absolutely necessary, or is there a way such commands could be done in the traditional way, within the main panes?

Thank you very much for help.

[Kilmatead]

You are unlikely to like the answers I'm about to give, and as you are new to x2 this is an unfortunate introduction, so the phrase "don't shoot the messenger" comes to mind.

Essentially the title-bar shows the currently focused folder and drive (not the full path) of each pane currently displayed (separated by '#') - as you discovered the brackets around one or the other denote the inactive pane. It is condensed in this form for quick reference regarding multiple-instancing/windows in the taskbar, etc, where "full paths" would be inevitably truncated and rendered useless.

The overall answer to your question is basically "no, you can't change it" - probably because the developer doesn't understand why people would want "less information", rather than more, regardless of perceived clarity. This has been discussed before and nothing ever came of it.

Also, I cannot explain the developer's intention behind forcing people to use the <Ctrl> modifier for hiding <F5>/<F6> modals - I agree the layout of the customise-keyboard dialog is unhelpful in this regard. My personal solution (as a mouse-user) was just to set up two toolbar buttons (one for <Ctrl+F5>, etc), and always use them, but that does not help in regard to keyboard access. I cannot speak as to why your attempt at using a 3rd-party utility to get around this is failing - cross-programme accelerators/hotkeys are not always reliable for a variety of reasons.

Since you got a scrap-pane for folder-compare, I'm assuming you used the "Tools -> Compare Subfolders" command - this, as the name suggests, is designed more for comparing the contents of multiple subfolders and their overall contents between panes - not for comparing simply the two immediate panes themselves.

What you probably should have used is the (unfortunately named) "Mark -> Sync-Wizard" command (<Ctrl+F9>), which compares the immediate panes themselves and highlights the differences.

I realise that people's first impressions of a programme are often based upon the most superficial of aspects (and how they may differ from "what I'm used-to and consider normal") - x2 is not and has never been especially known to be the most user-friendly file-manager (probably taking after its distinctly irascible developer), but looking broader it does appeal to a "certain kind" of user, so don't reject it out of hand based on my failure to answer your questions satisfactorily - give it some time, and if destined, instead reject it based on more practical considerations of missing functionality, etc, rather than "superficial UI stuff". (Unless you place that high on your list of expectations.)

[hel]

Thank you so much for your very kind and complete answer, Kilmatead.

I agree full path (as in the panes) will not be helpful in captions of narrow windows, and I agree in such cases it is the deepest-down folder name you will need most, but that @ before the folder one level up bothers me a lot. I think it would be very simply to program several options:
No folder indication at all in the main window, but just in scrap windows and the like
If folder indication, just the folder deep down
Or, some c:\...\parentfolder\folderdeepdown indication
Or, in the current way
I agree there is some good thinking behind this decision by the developer, but in the main window, I don't want to have forced upon me an ugly and unnecessary @ I did not encounter in any other program, together with a mix-up of the order of the current folder and its immediate parent folder (ditto, never seen anywhere).


I had used the Compare Subfolders command indeed, and had been asking myself why they were called "subfolders". As you say, the title "Mark-Sync-Wizard" is not that intuitive for the usual, expected function.


So for copy and move without dialog, I could create buttons, then run an external macro to click on that button. Here again, I never encountered another file manager where it was impossible, without external macros, to do a simple copy/move, but since this copy-instead-of-move problem arises when the two folders are not on the same device, I suppose it has something to do with xplorer2 transferring the command to Windows Explorer, which I never use, but which is set to do things differently, depending on the files being on the same drive or not.

As said, in the shortkey assignment list, there should be different entries for these commands, not three shortcuts within the same assignment pane, and I am sure this could easily be done since it's been done in every other file manager I know of.


So if I am not totally mistaken, the developer has his ways, and will not provide alternative ways of doing things, even though those alternative ways are the regular ways for an other file manager. I think this is problematic. And then, I need this "Move (not copy) from one drive to another one", from one pane to the other, again and again, and you are right to say, in that link, that most of the time, such file managers are used in their traditional two-pane set-up, so this F6 for move (not copy) from one pane to the other, and without intervening dialogs which are unwanted for this basic task, should be available, and without year-long asking for this being necessary.

So in my trial, I will probably not get to the point where I will discover the strong points of xplorer2, but again, let me thank you very warmly for your very kind help, Kilmatead. I very much regret you are not the developer of this program, which would have meant none of these three problems would have arisen in the first place.

I forgot to mention the ugly # in-between, and its drive plus current folder, not parent folder and current folder, but since the order is mixed-up, it is worthless and a visual nuisance. And then, the drive part is so short it could have been placed before the current folder even in the caption of narrow additional panes. This is just singling out a program by doing things worse than they are done elsewhere, for no reason. I'm really sorry.

[Kilmatead]

...I don't want to have forced upon me an ugly and unnecessary @ I did not encounter in any other program, together with a mix-up of the order of the current folder and its immediate parent folder

Just as a matter of clarity, the rationale behind this sign is (aside from concision) to emphasise a semantic distinction: In English, (and indeed many languages historically) the asperand/ampersat/"at"-sign is designating a target ("to point at something"). In a professional environment it is assumed people will be using many multiples of drive sources for their moving/copying - thus, the syntactical anastrophe ("reversal") distinguishes (folder) "JohnSmith1 at (on) drive F:" from the (folder) "JohnSmith1 at (on) drives M:, S:, or T:". In this view, the actual parent-names of JohnSmith1 are irrelevant, because it is the drive location itself which sets the two folders apart. Much the same way as "Lebanon, New Jersey" is not to be confused with the birthplace of Kahlil Gibran's much vaunted poetry. In the wrong shorthand, it's too easy to confuse the two.

(I could also be blowing smoke out of my arse with this explanation ["like the wind, to rest in reason, to move with passion"] - but I'm just giving the developer the benefit of the doubt as to the "weird looking" grammatical syntax. )

So if I am not totally mistaken, the developer has his ways, and will not provide alternative ways of doing things, even though those alternative ways are the regular ways for an other file manager. I think this is problematic.

The developer can be a bit of a blind stubborn bear when it comes to logical actions, it is true. However, there is a lot to be said for not caring "what the other guys do", and simply forging ahead without concern for keyboard trivia. Nikos' attention has never really been one of "ergonomics" (human-interfacing), so it's rather a wonder x2 has moved beyond the command-line at all (he said, affectionately, as one would excuse a rabid dog). There is enough of an outcry as to "why isn't <F5> Refresh by default?" since there are those (perhaps misguided few) who believe that particular paradigm is important too. Again, <F6> is merely "custom", not ordained rule - and (as the developer might say) if using <Ctrl+F6> is so arduous for people, then perhaps x2 is not their kind of file manager in the first place.

The <F5>/<F6> designations are only "robust" actions (handled by x2's error-recovery) when indeed moving objects between drives, as that is the most critical point for any data-loss. Transfers within the same drive are passed to explorer because they are of limited risk, overall.

Your difficulty with MacroExpress strangely altering that to a "copy" is odd, and suggestive that it isn't actually sending <Ctrl+F6> at all, but some other acceleration of its own design. I don't know how it works to comment further - but suffice to say that <Ctrl+F6> moves objects, regardless of location vs. destination media. Dragging and dropping objects between drives would display the behaviour you describe, but that's an entirely different action than keyboard-substitution.

So in my trial, I will probably not get to the point where I will discover the strong points of xplorer2...

And we wish you well in your endeavouring search for the perfect file-manager - may it end with the warmth of a learned exploration.

[nikos]

you must regard xplorer2 as a package. Like all things in life there are no "perfect" tools/software/wives. You balance what you like with what annoys you and make a decision.

It is not true that I don't listen to user feedback but on the other hand I am not going to change things that I feel are of little importance for most users. I grant you that the way xplorer2 is handling Ctrl in this F5 command isn't helping people like you that want to adjust it. It will change one day

for synchronizing subfolders it is easier to use robust copy wih "overwrite if newer else skip" option

for more information on what xplorer2 can do for you please watch some of the demo videos in HELP > HOW DO I? menu command

[Kilmatead]

Like all things in life there are no "perfect" tools/software/wives.

Wives? Connubial bliss getting in the way of your file-management? The blind stubborn bear is being attacked on all fronts today, it would seem.

Lot easier to add options to x2 than to your wife though, so maybe user-friendliness isn't the awful thing you make it out to be...

[drac]

I LIKE Hel's thought of having Kilmatead be the author of X2. Not only would X2 be much nearer to perfect (though, as Nikos suggests, never actually reaching that level), but the manual would be a literary tour de force. With Kilmatead as the author, and Nikos as the official thorn in his side (thus reversing roles) X2 would evolve much faster, be more logical and avoid the idiocratic entity that X2 has become.

Perhaps it is time for Nikos to pass on the responsibility for the care of the "child" to another alma mater and see what magic happens.

[nikos]

we have a saying in greece "dancing is very easy when you are a bystander"

[Kilmatead]

...for those who know me, I do have a slightly odd taste in my mouth from creating what could be seen as a more "mainstream" utility - have no fear, I won't make a habit of it.

I actually enjoy the knowledge that (thankfully) all human toil and endeavour comes ultimately to dust - vainglory is a most distasteful sin. You'd think all upstart Empire-builders would have learned that by now.

"dancing is very easy when you are a bystander"

So is Snooker! And... what is dancing anyway, these days?

I would , however, completely automate customer care, though - all complaints get answered with one simple email:

“It works on my machine” always holds true for Chuck Norris.

So, really, nothing would actually change.

[Tuxman]

we have a saying in greece "dancing is very easy when you are a bystander"

I'm convinced that this explains a lot about Greece.

[drac]

No way do I believe Kilmatead would automate responses. They would be long, informative and filled with literary (and other) references.

I like that old Greek saying. Very "Zorba"! However, Just because someone is a bystander at one dance, does not suggest they have never danced or do not know what it takes to do the dance.

[Enternal]

It is not true that I don't listen to user feedback but on the other hand I am not going to change things that I feel are of little importance for most users. I grant you that the way xplorer2 is handling Ctrl in this F5 command isn't helping people like you that want to adjust it. It will change one day.

From what I understand of nikos: "I do listen to people. So here's a workaround. Another workaround. And another work around. I'm going to work on it one day. One day."

*runs away before nikos try to kill him*

[drac]

I think that captures the essence of the Nikos philosophy of user interface design. Or, put another way, how many user complaints does it take to get Nikos to change the X2 user interface? Not sure yet, we will find out when X2 gets that many users.

[Enternal]

"How many licks to the center of a tootsie pop?"

Guess we will need to start bribing nikos with some Lithuania cheese to get him "convinced".