alpha version 250.13

[Kilmatead]

Ironically, as the original aim of the Ribbon as used in Office 07 (which started the landslide of vitriol) was "intended to alleviate the problem of users not finding or knowing of the existence of available features" the fact that it actually replaces the main menu in x2 makes it rather more difficult to "find or know about" any of the decent features.

In that light, if you could have both the menu proper and this defunct ribbon thing, it would at least make some kind of sense in the overall picture. But then again, Nikos != Ergonomics.

P.S. Could you be the very last Hewlett Packard owner?

[nikos]

there will be another "advanced" ribbon tab with the juicier stuff, and I also put in the menu the "command finder" that will help everybody adjust

ps there must be a british judge in the EU courts? naff!
pity about HP, my current laptop is one and I was planning to get another one one day
these CEOs should be shot, why doesn't he sell everything and get into pr0n business, that's more profitable than software even, eh!

[Tuxman]

HP tried to exit computing a couple of times. They never managed to.
I, for one, own an EliteBook and would really miss them. Those are rock-solid.

About my problem:

check which version you are running, see HELP > ABOUT dialog. Also you can use the special %X2DIR% path in the addressbar to see where x2 is really running from

The %X2DIR% is the correct one. Version info:

2.5.0.13 ULT [Unicode] DBG 02.12.2014

[Kilmatead]

It still can't find the .png files and (shortly) flashes an error about that.

Considering that the png files in question are merely skinning remnants, and no errors are returned if they are missing, it begs the question as to exactly what error message is flashing at you and how do you know x2 is not finding them? If they exist, the log states they are loaded, if they do not exist, no entry is in the log and the worst thing that can happen is that you're stuck with default icons, so.... have you been tippling the hooch again?

[RightPaddock]

ps there must be a british judge in the EU courts? naff!

Nuh, Ali Samatar v. France and Hassan v. France,

The judgments were given by a Chamber of seven judges, composed as follows:
Mark Villiger (Liechtenstein), President,
Angelika Nußberger (Germany),
Boštjan M. Zupančič (Slovenia),
Ganna Yudkivska (Ukraine),
Vincent A. de Gaetano (Malta),
André Potocki (France),
Aleš Pejchal (the Czech Republic),

Hmmm - "... composed as follows:", I think a Briton (probably should say an Englishman) would have written "...comprised of:"

pity about HP, my current laptop is one and I was planning to get another one one day
these CEOs should be shot, why doesn't he sell everything and get into pr0n business, that's more profitable than software even, eh!

The Automony deal is very old news, and it's been written off the balance sheet already. The CEO, Léo Apotheker, did get the boot as a result of the Autonomy fiasco. He was replaced by Meg Whitman who was on board that approved the Automony fiasco <sigh>. Thankfully they didn't fire Cathie Lesjak the CFO. Lesjak advised strongly against the Automony deal. When it became apparent that Apotheker and the board were ignoring her she went public with her advice, i.e. she blew the whistle and still the shareholders (pension funds) did nothing!! The board and Whitman can't get rid of Lesjak - she knows where all the other bodies are buried.

I assumed that nikos liked HP because they have a deal with Cosco (who run the Greek port of Piraeus) that will see HP landing its goods at Piraeus rather than Rotterdam - but only if/when the Greek government ever gets its freight trains privatised. IIRC Lexmark and others have a similar arrangements with Cosco, which is a state owned Chinese shipping and port operator.


On the subject of Ribbons. IMO unless you're going go the whole 9 yards then its not worth doing, MS has written reams on the design of Fluent interfaces. Incomplete attempts are worse than the decrepit old menu's and button bars they replace.

Further to Kilmatead's point regarding MS's motivation for implementing the Ribbon interface: Since I switched to Office 2007 about five years ago I've learnt more about Word and Excel than I did in the prior 20 odd years of using them, I first used Word on Xenix, before that I'd played with Bravo at Parc Place. So on a sample of one the MS intent was fulfilled. My observation is that people above 55 are more likely to love the Ribbon, whilst those who are under 45 are more likely to hate it. My theory is that the older cohort have seen so many things come and go (paper tape, punched cards, wind up phones, valve radios...) that they are better able to cope with change - providing it's for the better and not for its own sake.

Will Ctrl/F1 toggle minimize ribbon, will the Alt key display all the keyboard shortcuts, will it be configurable a'la Office 2010 and 2013. IMO an old and familiar crappy UI is better than an half-assed and unfamiliar crappy UI.

RP

[gufus]

http://www.zabkat.com/test/kenny.7z

here comes the ribbon


obviously there's still some work left to be done but it is time to keep an open mind and chip in with your ideas. What do you want to see on the ribbon out of the available commands? You can't put in everything; this should be like a "plain version" with the most important commands

see here how the ribbon works with windows explorer. We can't put some of these commands but just chip in with your recommendations

thanks!

The Ribbon work here

IMHO

Add ribbons into xplorer²

[ckit]

LMFAO... love where this is headed...
xplorer2 gets Windows 8 treatment and everybody loses their minds!

[gufus]

LMFAO... love where this is headed...
xplorer2 gets Windows 8 treatment and everybody loses their minds!

[Kilmatead]

My observation is that people above 55 are more likely to love the Ribbon, whilst those who are under 45 are more likely to hate it.

I'd be happier if you'd amend that to read "people under 47..." just so I don't feel so pigeon-holed, summarised, categorised, and filed-away over here. It's bad enough when Google's ad-bots decide to try and sell me all sorts of things middle-aged people really don't want to know about (just yet). Let the illusion last another day. Please. If hating or loving the ribbon will help me do that in even a superficial way, then I'll embrace it with all the willfulness my self-preserving hypocrisy can engender!

You're right though, it takes a lot of work to make the ribbon do what it's supposed to do (introduce commands/items to users in a fluidly dynamic and contextual way) instead of just sitting there like a gimmick-rebar. You're wrong though, to blithely dismiss "the decrepit old menus and button bars" by describing them in that fashion. They aren't decrepit, when done well, they are more efficient and easily understood by people than any flashy pictogram could ever hope to be. The operative term here being "done well" - any system that's done well will surmount the other, it just depends on the cohesiveness of the given design and the dedication of the designer.

(And if you believe Nikos' strengths ever lay in that arena, I have some swamp-land I can sell you super cheap. )

[nikos]

My observation is that people above 55 are more likely to love the Ribbon, whilst those who are under 45 are more likely to hate it.

I would say the opposite exactly, you know what they say about old dogs and new tricks...
I am sure that the majority of xplorer2 users are "mature" so with the ribbon I may cash in on the younger generation

[Tuxman]

Considering that the png files in question are merely skinning remnants, and no errors are returned if they are missing, it begs the question as to exactly what error message is flashing at you and how do you know x2 is not finding them?

I thought they're for adding icons to the ribbons? -- Well, I don't know much about how x^2 hides pop-ups.

have you been tippling the hooch again?

I never would!

[otlaolap]

You likely should explain to users, when the ribbon is released, that X2 will remember whether the ribbon is expanded or collapsed if the save-settings-on-exit option is in effect. I want X2 to start with the ribbon collapsed and started this post an hour ago to ask for this feature. Through many edits and tests, I finally discovered the above (normally I do not save settings on exit.) But I wonder how you can supply a command on the ribbon to "save settings now" when what you want is for X2 to start with the ribbon collapsed. And short of such a ribbon command or its analogue on the old menu, I don't see a way short of registry fiddling to get X2 to start with a collapsed menu and with the save-settings-now option not set.

Thank you, by the way, for making message 33249 a toggle (flip between ribbon and menu).

Just for completeness I mention the following, even though part of it is certainly due to the fact that the ribbon in kenny at the moment has not yet been populated. I turned the menu on and the ribbon off, and clicked "save settings now", just to verify that X2 kenny would start with the menu on and ribbon off. And it does so, nicely. But there is no way that I can find to undo this action: I can't turn the ribbon on and then "save settings now" (certainly because the ribbon as present is not at all populated by what it will eventually have). But I don't envy the ribbon writer the job of trying to provide arcane commands like "save settings now" and, as in the first paragraph of this post, "save settings now but with the ribbon collapsed".

[nikos]

for these commands you can use the command finder (HELP menu). It will be in the ribbon too but you can also set a keyboard key on the command finder for easier access

[Kilmatead]

The ribbon does not disable toolbars, so keeping a toolbar button around dedicated to Save Settings is rather useful, especially during beta-entertainments (I too do not use "save settings on exit", and thus it was one of the first toolbar buttons I ever made).

[RightPaddock]

You're wrong though, to blithely dismiss "the decrepit old menus and button bars" by describing them in that fashion.

You're right, I should have said "the decrepit old menus and button bars one finds in pre 2007 Office and X2". The menu's in Notepad++ and Irfan View, to name a couple, are fine, and AFAIK they ain't heading down the Ribbon Track.

RP