FolderSize problem

[Brig]

Hi Folks:

I just got a new laptop with 64-bit Windows 7. I'm reinstalling my stuff, setting it up the way I need it. 64-bit x2 ultimate works great, as expected, except for the FolderSize columns. I installed the 64-bit version of FS, the columns show up in the Available Columns dialogue, but if I set the columns and shut down x2, the FS columns are gone when I restart. I have "save settings on exit" ticked in options. Also, if I set the FS columns, then go to options and don't do anything except hit OK to get out, the FS columns are gone. What's up with that?

Thanks,
Brig

[Kilmatead]

If you are in a folder to which you have already saved specific folder settings using Actions -> Folder Settings -> Save then you need to "save them again" once you have added/removed any columns. Bespoke user-selected columns are not saved using "Save Settings on Exit", so must be done manually, as they are held in the local desktop.ini

Opening options then closing it causes the current pane to "refresh", which resets back to the original column set, and thus your new column and or settings disappear as they were never saved.

If you have FS columns included as part of your default column-set, then just clear the settings in the current folder so it inherits the default set from then on. Either nuke the desktop.ini files manually, or use Actions -> Folder Settings -> Clear, which will only remove x2 data such as column sets and view-mode, and not things like icon-definitions, etc.

[Brig]

Thanks. That works (mostly; see below). I blame the ribbon for obscuring Actions -> Folder Settings -> Save.

I have a lot of network drives and folders and I've found that if a network folder has more restrictive rights (e.g., I don't have write rights there), x2 can't write to desktop.ini and the FolderSize columns aren't permanent. This wasn't the case with my old laptop, so either my rights profile has changed or this is a 64-bit thing. In any case, thanks for the reminder.

[Kilmatead]

As I said, if the FS columns (or any other columns) are part of your default set (those settings which are applied to all folders which do not have any desktop.ini or saved settings), then permissions are irrelevant as you don't need to save settings for all your folders.

For example, on my system out of half a million folders I can probably count the number of folders with specific settings on one hand, usually just to make sure that folder displays in thumbnails view or something. The rest are all desktop.ini free, and so my default set is applied "as is".

So, if these network folders don't absolutely need to have any x2 settings saved in them, there shouldn't be an issue.

If your next question is "How do I make something part of these default settings?", the answer is somewhat clarified on page 52 of the PDF manual. The irony is that these "default settings" actually are saved within x2, because they are the default pane display, and are essentially modified whenever you change something and use Actions -> Save Settings Now. (This is one of the many reasons I don't use "Save Settings on Exit".)

They are pane-specific, so if you add the FS columns on one pane, then you must do it in the other pane as well.

Sometime in the distant past you probably made the mistake of thinking that in order to have the same settings apply to all folders, you needed to actually save them to all folders, when in reality it's the exact opposite. You probably have about a million more desktop.ini's than you actually need floating around the place.

And if your follow-up question is "Why is something like this that should be so simple so weirdly confusing?" I can only say that folder-settings in x2 are the love-child between the Devil (who, as everyone knows, is female) and Sauron himself. I think Nikos does stuff like this on purpose just the mess with our heads.

[Brig]

First of all, single-pane mode? Who could live like that?

Now then, yeah, I seem to be stuck defining each folder. Who can live like that? So what should I do? Clear each folder I've set, then go back to one, set it, and make it the default?

[Kilmatead]

Essentially yes, but bear in mind that one drawback of this paradigm is that since you use "Save Settings on Exit" if you change your columns in a way you expect to be "temporary", you can accidentally find those settings then applying to all folders (permanent until you change them again). So it's up to you... there's really nothing wrong with saving settings on all folders, but it's easy to forget which one's have them and which one's don't. Also, if you wish to make any "universal change" (such as adding Foldersize columns everywhere) you have to save the settings again for all folders, everywhere.

Like I said, I intentionally don't save settings on exit specifically so I know that just closing x2 immediately clears any nonsense that I may have done. It's a different way of working, so it may not suit you.

Regrettably, Memento mori is not a philosophy that's popular these days... I do so miss the simple practicalities of the 13th-century sometimes.

(And you think single-pane mode is bad? Believe it or not there are actually people who use the ribbon! I mean, WTF? How crazy do you have to be... oh wait... oops...)

[drac]

I use single pane mode. I will (rarely) switch to dual pane if I am doing something exotic. I have no need to see more than one folder at a time. I switch to a folder do stuff in it, switch to a different folder and work there. Dual pane just takes up screen real estate that is better used to see more files in the folder I care about. Moving or copying files is easily done with drag and drop to folder pane or buttons - no need to have two panes open for that.

If your working style is enhanced by using dual pane, wonderful. If mine is enhanced by not using dual pane, that should be wonderful, too. The world has enough problems with people not accepting others who are different, we don't need that in the world of file mangers as well.

[Kilmatead]

The world has enough problems with people not accepting others who are different, we don't need that in the world of file mangers as well.

Yes we do! There's a reason humans are subject to prejudice, suspicion, fear, and irrational loathing. It's what keeps us safe from the bloody mediocrity of not having to support, or even think-through our opinions! "Everybody is equal." Hogwash! "Everybody should be tolerated." Balderdash! This politically correct nonsense will lead to nothing but you getting munched on by lions and tigers and snakes and stuff. Us overly-judgemental tree-monkeys are the ones who will rule the world once you all rot away in a bog of hypocritical-tolerance, openmindedness, and all the nonsense we were never meant to embrace. Ayn Rand was right! And who are we to argue with her? That's like canonising Richard Dawkins for his generosity of spirit! Heathens! All of ye!

Now, for once and for all, if you use single-pane mode, you don't actually need a file-manager at all, you just want dumb things like bookmarks and tabs in regular Windows Explorer. Kiddie-stuff! You're not doing any real file managing, you're just doing the same thing you did 30-years ago with a different spit of paint on the dash. That's not progress, that's... that's... ugh, I can't breathe. This scourge really needs to be wiped out before we weep ourselves into dehydration.

By reducing file management to nothing more than Windows Explorer with a pair of fuzzy-dice hanging off the rear-view mirror (mere trinkets mistaken as "features"), one is reduced to vanity, not utility. Once the monkeys touched the ground and stood upright, they lost their only advantage against the true decay of life itself: the appreciation of grandiosity and our ability to grasp the sheer scope of our environs - in short, to see beyond one silly folder at a time.

Cathago delenda est! Hit 'em hard, I say. Let the sun shine in! George Berger is not a God! (A cool role-model, though.) He would never have settled for single-bloody-pane-mode, and neither should we.

[Brig]

Essentially yes, but bear in mind that one drawback of this paradigm is that since you use "Save Settings on Exit" if you change your columns in a way you expect to be "temporary", you can accidentally find those settings then applying to all folders (permanent until you change them again).

Nope all my folders have the same settings.

So it's up to you... there's really nothing wrong with saving settings on all folders, but it's easy to forget which one's have them and which one's don't. Also, if you wish to make any "universal change" (such as adding Foldersize columns everywhere) you have to save the settings again for all folders, everywhere.

Explain please. What do you mean by "again" and "everywhere"? If I want all my folders to look the same, and I want to save settings on exit, what would be the most efficient way to achieve that?

Like I said, I intentionally don't save settings on exit specifically so I know that just closing x2 immediately clears any nonsense that I may have done. It's a different way of working, so it may not suit you.

I have folder sets for the top and bottom panes that don't change that much. But I do change two or three folders depending on the task at hand, so I like to have my current state maintained from day to day.

Regrettably, Memento mori is not a philosophy that's popular these days... I do so miss the simple practicalities of the 13th-century sometimes.

Was "remember that you must die" ever very popular? I suppose it might be if you, like those who live in the more benighted sections of my country and the world, think that a glorious afterlife is a simple practicality. Then, why wait for a natural death? But that lust for a final blaze of glory is the problem of the 21st century, no? Too few people realize this is all you get.

(And you think single-pane mode is bad? Believe it or not there are actually people who use the ribbon! I mean, WTF? How crazy do you have to be... oh wait... oops...)

I humbly accept your opprobrium for my use of the ribbon. I know I shouldn't, it violates my most strongly held principles. But I'm like a monkey that finds a set of car keys. It's shiny, it feels funny. . . . I'll lose interest soon.

And drac: If single-pane mode floats your boat, I say happy sailing. I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy. And I'll bet Kilmatead is too. If we were to ever actually meet him. But here, well, he does like to entertain.

[Kilmatead]

Explain please. What do you mean by "again" and "everywhere"? If I want all my folders to look the same, and I want to save settings on exit, what would be the most efficient way to achieve that?

You know, when I started writing the third post in this thread, I knew I was just overcomplicating things and should have just left well enough alone because you seemed happy enough with my first answer. But oh no, I had to stir the pot by offering "alternative options". Sorry about that.

When I said "again & everywhere" I meant that as you have settings saved for probably most of your folders now, and your original problem was that the new columns you wanted were not being shown, in order to have those new columns appear everywhere you will have to re-save the "new" settings (of columns) on all your folders that have them - like going to the root folder of all your drives and answering the "Apply to all subfolders and may God have mercy on your hopeless soul?" prompt. You know the drill.

My suggestion was meant to simplify that, but I seem to have failed because I opened my mouth and started sputtering caveats. Never a good idea, that.

Since you've probably been using your same paradigm since 1973, it might be simpler to just stick with it, since you probably don't change column-sets very often, and it seems to have worked for you thus far.

The thing about Save Settings on Exit is just confusing the issue further, and it really isn't that big a deal... by not using it, I like to have the predictability of always having x2 start up the same way, with 99% of settings the same, no matter what. Technically 100% isn't possible as some settings (such as user-command definitions and such) are saved immediately when they are modified and there's no way around that (Nikos does it to preserve overall stability in how the lists stay in sync).

It's just that in my system, if I add or remove columns in one pane (or the other, or both) those columns are thus instantly available everywhere on the system that I browse, because there are no "local" settings to over-ride them. The downside is that if I accidentally save my settings with tons of extra columns added or moved around, it can take me awhile to get it all back to what I consider normal. Whereas for you, the local settings provide stability (when Save Settings on Exit is inherently capricious, in my view).

... ... ...yeah, and none of that is especially helpful either. To answer your main question, the simplest way for you to achieve nirvana is to just take the path you were going to do in the first place (once I explained why your columns weren't sticking): save the little suckers everywhere you can. The end result is more or less the same.

Was "remember that you must die" ever very popular?

It was, actually, being one of the leading ecclesiastical themes of the dark ages - were you to walk around Italian cities for awhile, its impact on art alone is staggering, and often overlooked by those who don't immediately understand why gargoyles are really cool. 25 years ago I was probably the only person in the world who actually pre-ordered Jean Delumeau's masterwork, Sin and Fear: The Emergence of the Western Guilt Culture, 13Th-18th Centuries because I just had to read it on the day of release. Ok, so the term "popular" is subjective when it comes to contemporary opinions, but hey, I can write one hell of an essay on the postmodern deconstruction of the Rolling Stones' youth-orientated lyrical tropes as my party-trick.

You begin to see my dilemma when dealing with pop-culture references - to a medieval mind like mine (it is, actually, contrary to appearances) I rather easily confuse the contemporary world for its obvious antecedents, whereas popular culture is based on the assumption of ephemerality, and people are meant to believe it all just springs forth from the magic of human enlightenment - when nothing could be further from the truth. But try to explain that to the My Little Pony generation.

And I'll bet Kilmatead is too. [...] But here, well, he does like to entertain.

I thought I made a pretty good case for my argument, actually, with the whole monkeys in the trees being able to see further than the celebrated walkies on the ground and slyly denigrating stuff like tabs and bookmarks as being for the lower-classes. My posts may be utter rubbish when I extemporise an argument out of thin air for the fun of it, but they're usually a logically-cohesive bundle of utter rubbish if anyone really follows the threads to the bitter end! It's all in the applied use of imagery - just like the communicatively metaphorical medieval art-houses we simplistically (and mistakenly) call Cathedrals today.

[drac]

Kilmatead,

Don't be too quick to destroy Carthage - you might be happy there. In that old world, "join us or die" was the battle cry. And it seems to be yours as well.

I am not too old to learn something new, so if there are any advantages to two panes I would like to know about them. What can I do (that *I* want to do) that is only possible with two panes (or is considerably easier with two panes)? I am not saying that two panes is a bad thing, only that it is not a necessary thing. BTW I don't use folder tabs - again, no need. I can use buttons to get to a folder, why bother taking up space with tabs?

Just to show that I do have some redeemable value, I agree that the Ribbon is the 11th plague. I still have trouble finding things in MS Office programs since having to switch to one of them new fangled versions. Unlike X2, it is not easy to disable the ribbon and go back to the way things were. I was a big fan of WordStar, and I was good at it. While I begrudgingly admit that WYSIWYG editing is much easier and more efficient, it lacks something that is basic to the human spirit. Just as a car is easier and more efficient than riding a horse, most cars also lack that feeling one gets when man and horse bond in mutual need. And most cars cannot provide the sense of freedom allowed by riding a horse - of even by a bicycle. I still remember that feeling of freedom and independence when riding my first bicycle (limited freedom, of course, since I was not allowed to cross any streets).

I also support your politically incorrect ravings about the lack of equality among people and join you while you rail against the need to tolerate people who are irritating. Still there are advantages to political correctness: fewer wars, more peaceful (if not always happier) lives and someone around to bring you a beer when you are reading a good book and do not want the interruption of getting your own.

[Kilmatead]

Don't be too quick to destroy Carthage - you might be happy there. In that old world, "join us or die" was the battle cry.

Curiously enough, it's not that cut and dry. I've been on a Carthage-binge for the last few months, refreshing my memory of old university lectures with what a few of the "newer histories" have to say. To be fair, since I'm more of a Rome-freak, I usually read the Punic Wars with a perspective - while hardly a full-blown prejudice, or agenda - when pushed to root for one side or t'other, my allegiance was usually with the purple. If forced to be professorial, I can read things with an unbiased eye, but it's much more fun to indulge one's fancies with the narrative.

Anyway, it's always amusing the read reviews of books you've read just to see what other people thought of them, and it turns out Amazon is a great trove of this sort of past-time. Recently I ran across a review of this book which I read a couple of years ago (not a great book, but passable), and one lad in particular (Thomas Fleming) had a rather interesting point to make (his review in full is on the linked page):

Miles [the author] complains, naturally, of the bias of Greek historians against Carthage and sees it (following the speculative and tendentious work of Edith Hall) as an invention of the fifth century, a piece of propaganda orchestrated by Sicilian Greeks who wanted to claim some of the panhellenic glory won by Athens and Sparta against the barbarians. But the stories and artistic representations of the Hellenic struggle with mythical barbarians antedates the Persian Wars. The Greeks were simultaneously aware of how much they owed to eastern cultures and yet determined to assert their own unique identity. This is no late invention. Miles might also consider the plain fact that the Carthaginians did not produce much of a literature. It is not only that they were eventually defeated by the Romans, since Greeks and Romans did translate and read Carthaginian books, when they were of interest. The truth is that the Carthaginians were a lot like Americans, more interested in getting and spending than in creating anything particularly beautiful or original. This left them, naturally, vulnerable to Greek culture.

* * *

What can I do (that *I* want to do) that is only possible with two panes (or is considerably easier with two panes)?

First of all, obviously my "rant" was just in jest - people may use programmes any way they please, especially (in my opinion) if they can be used in ways that they were never originally intended.

The latter-state is rather rare, especially in the realms of technical things like file-managers, but I always hold out hope for the little-guy fighting against the storm of conservatism the technocratic world so embraces.

Since I can in no way ever possibly answer such a subjective question as yours (do I know what you want to do with your computer? Obviously not!) I can but give a simple example. Just for the fun of it, it involves one of your other toys (Macrium) - except even worse, you yourself have made it clear that you don't actually use your backups and virtually never look at them, etc., so my example won't mean much to you, but hey, I'm busy promulgating a premise for the mythical Fourth Punic War, so we're a little pushed for time.

Contrary to you, I use my image backups on a daily basis, and I'm forever mounting one or two (or more at a time) images to compare or renew aspects of my current system or even each other (yes, I actually do this daily, just for fun - what can I say, I'm easily amused). Anyway, I do this so often that I went out of my way to have x2 automatically launch and mount multiple images (not using explorer, nor Reflect's rather awful GUI), with Mirrored Browsing and Mirrored Scrolling automatically active. Anyone who ever used Windows Explorer to look at things has usually ended up with multiple instances of it open with overlapped windows, and all the trouble that ensues. That paradigm has been "enjoyed" by almost all serious PC users over time that it's virtually an engrained de rigueur part of the culture to laugh-at, belittle, and generally trounce the very notion of using anything with single-pane, let alone a file-manager. Copy and paste? I think not.

Anyway, since x2 can mirror-browse and scroll multiple disparate locations all by itself, I can zip my way through the entire structure of a drive with both panes (the "old system" on the left, the "new" on the right) and they always automatically stay locked in tandem view, no matter if I use bookmarks or whatever other means to navigate.

"So what?" I hear you say, "I'm sure if I did that sort of thing, I'd do it the same way, but your drugs don't interest me, so what's in it for me?"

As stated before, there can be no useful response to that sort of solipsistic and reductionist viewpoint - it can only be answered with one of my own, as is only reasonable. There was a reason I started off this post with the bit about Carthage, and did not leave it a separate discussion, for it is in no way off-topic. It is, as it has ever been, quite relevant to all our waking moments.

And, just for the record, when I use the phrase "Carthago delenda est", I'm using it in an iconic imitation of Cato the Elder who used to include it in virtually all of his speeches, even those that had nothing whatsoever to do with the Carthaginian contretemps he was so fond of. I'm not using it literally - though if your man above is right in his associating the myopic Carthaginian and vainglorious American demeanours, it might have some value after all. It's just my way of objectifying the otherwise normal "shouting into the void" I engage in regularly around here. Somebody's gotta do it.

Anyway, Single-Pane users are Carthage, and Dual-Pane users are Rome. Guess who wins the fourth punic war in my little curious world of non-Nominalism?

[dunno]

Still there are advantages to political correctness: fewer wars, more peaceful (if not always happier) lives

Not true, The politically correct majority in any culture have never prevented the radical fvcktards within their midsts from waging war. i.e. The Spanish Inquisition slaughtered how many politically correct; The nazi's, a minority group which the politically correct majority allowed to flourish; The Chinese civil war, the politically correct majority were slaughtered; Stalin and his cronies slaughtered the politically incorrect and again the brain dead politically correct majority were irrelevant, The spanish civil war the same, etc.
The politically correct peaceful majority have never prevented any war from occurring, they are therefore irrelevant and of no use to humans that seek progress in a peaceful manner.

Political correctness has far to many faults for it to be of any use, it,
Kills, actually slaughters meaningful conversation,
Prohibits the truth,
Prohibits free speech,
Stunts social development,

Talk about the weather, kids, family, dogs, cats, cars, bicycles, fishing, only goes so far during a social evening. I was invited to a dinner party which was a politically correct affair, once all the mundane subjects had been exhausted, recipes were then extolled and swapped for over a hour, fvcking recipes !. Once the plates were cold I bid them a politically correct "Good Night".

and someone around to bring you a beer when you are reading a good book and do not want the interruption of getting your own.

I can't figure out if you're a politically correct MCP.

Back on topic: Dual panes with tabs, welcome to the 20th century, haven't used a tree since X2.

[Brig]

So I've given up on "save settings on exit" and set a folder in each pane as the default. All seems to be fine. And if at the end of the day I want to keep my current configuration of folders in each pane, I'll just click "save settings now." Seems like the mature thing to do.

And I've put the ribbon away. I've come down from the trees and I'm walking upright now. (I'm sticking with my own version of the primate metaphor, not Kilmatead's. He championed the tree-monkeys' vantage point, but, really, what's it good for? Flinging feces at your enemies. How immature. In any case, I can still climb a tree if need be.)

[Kilmatead]

Seems like the mature thing to do.

Wait, are you intoning that some idea of mine has some discreet residue of mature tendencies in it? God, how horrible! Let it never come to pass! I don't ever want to be that guy.

Flinging feces at your enemies. How immature.

Now manure tendencies (and residuum), on the other hand, I can get to grips with! (So to speak.) Have you ever actually flung faeces at your enemies? I dare say there are fewer things more satisfying, more guttural, and more functionally apt. It's one of those universal aspects of communication that simply can't be mistaken for anything else. Unfortunately these days I'm reduced to tossing horse-manure around the place, which doesn't quite have the same "oomph!" to it, and certainly does not convey any proper sense of enmity. Anyone I toss it at thinks me to be the right jovial companion of a morning!

Why is it that at some point during the ageing process our intentions of immaturity are celebrated as community spirit, while our darkest hours pass unnoticed to the squabbling hordes? Methinks there's a counterbalancing undercurrent to the universe that doth take us (and all our endeavours, not just the mature ones) for fools.

Give me a nice high branch to curl my tail around and a warm handful of the "freshly freshlies" and there is little else I could ever ask for - except perhaps the conspicuous target of the balding pate of my enemy passing below me...