blog: whatever next for europe? [politics]

[neko]

I am not elite, I'm poor Finnish guy that pay high taxes for everything. Some of that money has gone for helping Greece. Please, do not write BS.

Now Greece voting to leave EU. It was like I take loan to buy a house. Bank says I have to pay loan installment. I vote with my family that we do not pay. Some problems are certainly exists in future, but Greeks voted like this. What we can do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[nikos]

hey dunno, don't upset europeans, that's tsipras job
strictly speaking, greeks didn't vote for the euro. It was a silly question like "do you want to pay taxes? YES/NO"

I understand EU are fed up with us, however I don't understand how they are planning to get rid of the "problem", if we rule out camaraderie. Even if world markets remain calm with a 320 bn blast, there is the little thing who will repay the loans? It is not like someone defaulted on their mortgage and they'll have their houses reposessed... think about it!

[Kilmatead]

I don't understand how they are planning to get rid of the "problem" [...] there is the little thing who will repay the loans? It is not like someone defaulted on their mortgage...

Since the bailout fund is only at €1,889,783 with 21 hours to go, I'm probably not going to get my postcard from Alex, which is kind of disappointing.

That said, from a more practical stance, the English telly is filled with talking-heads who propose a "temporary" exit (the colloquial "Gr€xit"), whereupon you leave then come back, thus "resetting" the books. Sounds silly, but the "new owners" of a house are not held responsible for the debts of the old owner, so on paper, that's how these things are done anyway - you'd just become the New Poland at the back of the queue, with a freshly generated GUID of forgiveness to proudly paste on your foreheads.

Besides, how quickly you forget about your other blog (which, contrary to popular opinion, was never debunked). The same thing applies here (forget the whiny-euro-taxpayers, we're only repeating the propaganda we were told), just the scale is a little different. Why do you think they "give" a needy-country a bundle of cash, and then immediately demand (usually a few days later) that a percentage instalment is due right then and there (paid for from the balance itself)? Why else would they give us money to pay back our own debts with (immediately) if those debts weren't fictitious in the first place (in order to create "real" money, and foster the belief that the rest must come from [as yet non-existing] recovery-profits)? Shell-games.

[dunno]

Why else would they give us money to pay back our own debts with (immediately) if those debts weren't fictitious in the first place (in order to create "real" money, and foster the belief that the rest must come from [as yet non-existing] recovery-profits)? Shell-games.

Shell games indeed.
The troika is just ensuring that it's the EU central bank that is left holding the shell full of shyte and not a private national bank that is going to go bust if Greece imposes "haircuts" on the debit, this way the entire EU tax base is on the hook for the default instead of private banks in France and Germany, this is why capitol controls weren't imposed on Greece, to give the Troika Banks, Hedge funds, Elite Robber Barons, time to extract their money from Greece complements of the EU bank, pretty neat huh.
The money given to Greece Prior to the bailout was legally stolen from the Greek people by Banksters, Aristocrats, and Big Sharks, the Greek folks watched it happen but did didly squat as the music never stops right ?.
Now the sole Lender (representing ALL EU taxpayers) wants its money back, what Greece does to raise the funds is not their issue, they just want their cash, and like any well run mafia they'll use any dirty trick to extort the cash, there will always be some threat to keep the Greek folks terrified of defaulting.

Shark fin soup anyone ?

[nikos]

here's a graph of the greek debt which i found in bloomberg

so the debt didn't actually increase as I claimed but it has remained the same
still it shows that the austerity treatment did absolutely nothing to the figures and just knackered a lot of people in greece

[Kilmatead]

Apparently, judging from that graph, your own personal move to Slovakia in 2012 manifested itself as a national savings event!

That's a lot of debt for one guy to be responsible for. You sure you're okay with your bookie these days?

[dunno]

I'm thinking of emigrating to Iceland, now those folks have "chutzpah", they showed the Banksters and Gxx club the middle finger by defaulting, AND they have jailed several bansksters, gotta love a country that jails banksters, it just feels right.

Aparently life goes on in Iceland (Greece take note), hardships and all, but to quote a Icelandic government official, "Never, ever, trust a banker".

P.S. with global warming Iceland should be tropical in my lifetime, PERFECT.

[nikos]

Even if world markets remain calm with a 320 bn blast, there is the little thing who will repay the loans? It is not like someone defaulted on their mortgage and they'll have their houses reposessed... think about it!

well here's a possible answer, just print more euros to cover the greek hole, sorted!

I have a sinking feeling that after this sunday's full european meeting I'll need a visa to visit my family in slovakia

[Kilmatead]

Considering that Greece is now the main conduit for our North African Immigrant friends to go through (since it's cheaper to "let them go" than to feed them), you shouldn't find it that difficult to get to Eastern Europe. Just take the road less travelled, as everyone else is apparently trying to get to England, no one but the true of heart and those of honourable spirit would actually want to get to Slovakia.

It'll be just like the old days when men forged their characters through their arduous journeys. Think of it: you could be the first Greek in 3000 years to walk (properly) in Homer's footsteps; let that son of yours earn his cultural-nomenclature!

[IsoBuster]

10 million people in Greece.
The professional population is 5 million (which is very low, it should be more towards 7 million)

800.000 of those 5 million are civil servants !!

Do you understand why the rest of Europe is tired of paying Greece ?

An ultra left government is never going to want to change this ...

On Tax evasion:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexch ... ion-greece

[nikos]

you are absolutely right, a series of corrupt governments have offered public sector work for life (and pensions) to their voters. It is suicidal. However the last governments instead of kicking out all the idle workers in the public sector preferred to tax the working people to death. Still as far as keeping track of expenses is concerned it does the job. And about not paying taxes keep in mind that greeks don't get any social benefits either. Roads, police, hospitals, schools are all poor, that's the result of not paying taxes. It doesn't affect europeans

not to mention that 75% of taxation relies on indirect taxes like VAT so that cannot be evaded
and to be absolutely honest with you, I've never been to belgium but both in the UK and slovakia where I've lived for long, people don't pay taxes or pay as little as they can get away with. It is not just a greek phenomenon

[dunno]

not to mention that 75% of taxation relies on indirect taxes like VAT so that cannot be evaded
and to be absolutely honest with you, I've never been to belgium but both in the UK and slovakia where I've lived for long, people don't pay taxes or pay as little as they can get away with. It is not just a greek phenomenon

There is a difference between tax Avoidance and Evasion, you know that right ?.

If a government tax department turns a blind eye to blatant tax evasion then they are partners in crime. There is a reason why the tax code is several books thick, this is to ensure that it's only those who have employed tax advisor's utilise the loop-holes and avoid paying taxes. The purpose of a complex tax code/system is to make it difficult for joe soap to avoid taxes, EVERY SINGLE western country has complex loop-holes which enable those with drive and ambition to avoid taxes. That is life, get with the program.

Again I ask the question, if greek debt is written off ?, what steps are there to bring the tax evaders to justice, and what will the government do to claw the billions that was siphoned off by the Aristocrats and Big Sharks. If Greece doesn't sort that out, all you'll have is Wash, Rinse, and Repeat, with the Greek people always holding the shyte end of the stick. You have to have laws in place to prevent the plundering of Greek coffers, or for ever resign yourself to a life of servitude.

[nikos]

if greek debt is written off ?, what steps are there to bring the tax evaders to justice, and what will the government do to claw the billions that was siphoned off by the Aristocrats and Big Sharks. If Greece doesn't sort that out, all you'll have is Wash, Rinse, and Repeat

you are spot on. I've been asking myself many times this question and the only answer I have is that unless they sort out the corruption greece is just a place for holidays. I am hoping to move to cyprus this autumn

[neko]

Huh, 17-hour negotiation. Now ball is in Greece ... I really hope all go well.

[dunno]

This bail out is to keep the government functioning, akin to a petty cash float. Greece still has to figure out a way of paying back the 300+ billion that it owes AND this 80 Billion bailout. No Grexit because the TBTF banks are heavily invested in derivatives on Greek debt, so all this is doing is buying time for the TBTF banks to unwind their toxic trades at the expense of the EU taxpyer, Once the banks have their loot then Grexit will be back on the cards.

The poor pensioners are going to get a "haircut", might I suggest a "Soylent Green" factory, two birds with one stone.

Edit: The rumbling of dissent over who foots the bill of a eventual Grexit is beginning sooner than I thought,

http://rt.com/uk/273529-osborne-eurozon ... e-bailout/

Strange how the IMF was the loudest voice shouting for austerity a while back, Now it's says that Greek debt should be forgiven by the EU, how very odd, could it be a case of, "I finally got my money back, I'm ok jack".