Copy To, Move To Options

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pj
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Copy To, Move To Options

Post by pj »

Please help me understand the options I need to set in the Copy To or Move To dialogs to force overwrite of all files regardless of file date, but still produce a log file. The only method I could work out to force overwrite without asking is to set the Ask Confirmation setting, then check Silent Operation. That achieved the "overwrite always", but didn't product a log file, even with Keep progress window open set.

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PJ in (puzzled) FL
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nikos
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by nikos »

I think in this mode xplorer2 logs files that were NOT copied, since usually they are less
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by Kilmatead »

nikos wrote:...since usually they are less
You know, in all seriousness, I sometimes really do wonder how you consistently manage to be completely South of logic and reason... and have yet to absent-mindedly step in front of a bus or something. :shock:

I don't even need to see PJ's apoplexy to support him on this one... (though i suspect after the week he's had he'll just have a nice quiet seizure of some kind)... "since they are less" is so far outside of the definition of what logging is (and is for) that complete madness must otherwise ensue. Are you terrified of a little verbosity in the log or something?
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by pj »

The problem is that lack of a log doesn't assure completion.

I had to run a few trials to be sure I understood the logic behind the dialog, as it appears that even grayed out options are used. No older files were copied when the Overwrite... option was selected, even though it's grayed out when Silent is checked. That's why I had to uncheck Silent, set Ask..., then recheck Silent (kind of contradictory, don't you think?), to get older files to also copy.

I guess the progress window does provide the number of files transferred, and as long as that matches the number selected, the all's well. If not, then a comparison needs to be made somehow...

K - thanks for the support! This does seem even more counter-intuitive than most of Nikos' idiosyncrasies ...

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PJ in FL
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by Enternal »

Oh! Thanks for explaining this. I thought I was the only one going crazy whenever I try reading the logs but could not get the info I want out of it. A few times I had to go back and manually check what was changed and what was not. At least now I know what to keep an eye out for depending on what I'm doing... or I just go back to using FastCopy now that it's being updated more frequently. Plus the author of FastCopy finally merge the English changes I made after only 5 years (apparently he lost my email haha) lol.

On an unrelated note, nikos, have you ever thought about making the capitalization in buttons consistent? It's driving me nuts (I think I have OCD or something) but seeing "Copy", "cancel", "define", and "Save" in the Copy To dialog is just kind of weird. This is also an issue for items such as labels under the System toolbar item. Since Windows names the items such as "My Computer" or "My Pictures", it would seem more consistent to keep the capitalization that way instead. Oh! How about adding icons to those labels under the System button? All those items should have default Windows icon for them so it would liven up that otherwise boring menu.
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by dunno »

pj wrote:No older files were copied when the Overwrite... option was selected, even though it's grayed out when Silent is checked. That's why I had to uncheck Silent, set Ask..., then recheck Silent (kind of contradictory, don't you think?), to get older files to also copy.
aha, now I understand some weirdness, overwrite doesn't actually overwrite if the file is older and if all other options are greyed out, and here I thought that I had overwrite nailed....

*Back to delete destination file first and then copy or move selected file to ensure that what I want done, is actually done*.

*sigh*
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nikos
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by nikos »

if you opt for SILENT mode then it's like you get YES TO ALL overwrite mode. But when you have "overwrite newer" combined with SILENT it doesn't change much.

As for the "irrational" way to log files, think that in backup mode (overwrite if newer) you have millions of files examined to get only a few copied, so the latter part is the really important information (and less work)
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by Enternal »

Enternal wrote:On an unrelated note, nikos, have you ever thought about making the capitalization in buttons consistent? It's driving me nuts (I think I have OCD or something) but seeing "Copy", "cancel", "define", and "Save" in the Copy To dialog is just kind of weird. This is also an issue for items such as labels under the System toolbar item. Since Windows names the items such as "My Computer" or "My Pictures", it would seem more consistent to keep the capitalization that way instead. Oh! How about adding icons to those labels under the System button? All those items should have default Windows icon for them so it would liven up that otherwise boring menu.
Is this idea really that radical? I mean take a look at your Drive button
2015-12-18 00_43_56-xplorer² - Downloads @ C__ # [Programs @ C__].png
Your Tool menu
2015-12-18 00_44_28-xplorer² - Downloads @ C__ # [Programs @ C__].png
You get the idea. All these menus have icons that you carefully select which makes sense(?) for each individual items. Now your System menu
2015-12-18 00_43_19-xplorer² - Downloads @ C__ # [Programs @ C__].png
Very very empty. You don't even need to carefully craft or choose the icons for these items. Windows already has default ones for them. So what's wrong with the idea? Right now, this menu looks like an afterthought compared to the others.
pj
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by pj »

nikos wrote:if you opt for SILENT mode then it's like you get YES TO ALL overwrite mode. But when you have "overwrite newer" combined with SILENT it doesn't change much.

As for the "irrational" way to log files, think that in backup mode (overwrite if newer) you have millions of files examined to get only a few copied, so the latter part is the really important information (and less work)
I really needed to wait a while to respond until I could possibly understand that the idea that the developer believes this position is logical and the combination of grayed out options with non-gray options somehow makes sense. Unfortunately, I never got to that point because it doesn't make any sense, no matter how long I let the idea fester.... :roll:

How can "overwrite newer" even be "selected" when it's grayed out???

Somehow, the Copy To and Move To functions need to have a clear, unequivocal option that lets the user know what is selected will be copied or moved, barring errors, no questions asked. A JUST DO IT! option, if you will.

If the option to keep progress window open is selected, then what do you think the user wants to do but be able to check the log? Again, here is no LOG FILES option that, when selected, the user clearly understands that if a lot of files are selected the the log will show a lot of files either being copied or not. Again, we need a CLEAR option that, when selected, the user knows the files will be logged and that is what is EXPECTED when the option is selected!

Also, as there is no BACKUP indicator or checkbox, it's not clear what indication that a user is performing a BACKUP, so what logic are you using to ASSUME that's what is happening?????

Nikos, please take a few minutes and just consider, from the user's perspective, we want a program that does what we ask, not make assumptions based on hidden logic. If the selections in the dialog are not clear --- FIX THE SILLY DIALOG and stop trying to OUT-THINK the user!!!!!

From my perspective, it appears you are taking the attitude of "I know better than the user what the user wants".

Believe me when I say that you really don't.

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PJ in (rainy and "cold", i.e. below 70F) FL
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nikos
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by nikos »

obviously you select what the overwrite option/policy is BEFORE you disable the box, that is before you turn on silent mode.
and any way as i explained above the only reasonable choice for silent mode is the default overwrite (ask) mode
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by Enternal »

nikos wrote:obviously you select what the overwrite option/policy is BEFORE you disable the box, that is before you turn on silent mode.
and any way as i explained above the only reasonable choice for silent mode is the default overwrite (ask) mode
Obviously pj understands the logic of that dialog and he/she's saying the logic used for the dialog is confusing.

It may make sense to you but that is actually confusing for a user. When you see something grayed out, you would expect that option to not have an effect on your current operation such as, "When in silent mode, you can only have Overwrite new enabled/disabled". In this case, it does have an effect so what's the point of graying it out then? Currently it's more like, "When in silent mode, you can either have Overwrite new enabled or disabled. If you want to change your mind, you must disable silent mode, enable/disable Overwrite new, and then re-enable silent mode." What's the point?

You might as well just leave it "enabled" which then would mean "Operation is currently in silent mode. Overwrite new is Enabled/Disabled." Simple and makes sense instead of graying it out which has no purpose in this case.

In terms of "backup", you know it's a "backup" operation considering the options used. Yet the logging is inadequate. So far all the backup software I used, when backing up files, it logs everything including successes and failures. That's what a backup log is. You want to assure that everything went well and what did not go well. A log of only errors is useful as notification of what's wrong but not as an assurance of successful completion. So in this case, a verbose log would be very helpful.
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nikos
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Re: Copy To, Move To Options

Post by nikos »

the log always prints out error messages. As for the "missing" files that were untouched because they were unchanged, they are (all the files) - (files reported as copied)

for interesting messages in the log search for "error" or "@@@". Press Ctrl+F to search in the log window
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