4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

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Gary M. Mugford
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4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by Gary M. Mugford » 2021 Mar 31, 22:23

Thought I had submitted this topic. Looks like I was wrong. As you know Nikos, loooooooong time HAPPY user of v2x in a Windows 7 environment (with lots of help from fellow forum travelers). Against my wishes, I am now using Windows 10 (Gack!) and have xplorer2 v5.01 installed. MOSTLY okay with it, but my issue right now is that toolbars in x2 now show as tiny little strips with tiny icons (No, not that SMALL option, but the regular size ones), as well as labels that have 2, maybe 3 letters before the ...

What I would like is some direction where I can make the default size for icons on the toolbar .... say 96pts. Since I'm using x2 on a Portrait 4K monitor, I have height to burn. THEN, surely there MUST be a setting that has the icon/label 'space' be the GREATER of the width of either the icon or the label. Solves ALL my current problems (although I'd love for Kilmatead to do an updated macro language version of his tools, but I can't have that merely for the asking of Nikos).

Thanks in advance for whatever help you vets of Windows 10 can offer me.

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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Mar 31, 22:44

Sounds like your Windows 10 install is having you use large fonts so they are readable on a display with that many pixels, but the actual resolution of a 4 K monitor makes most other things seem tiny.

But on my machine, (not using 4K yet, as I don't have 4K monitors - yet), I can adjust the display *scaling* and it does everything, not just the text, but everything on the screen. To get to it, go to Windows Settings --> System - that should open to the Display tab, where, if you scroll down a bit, you should see a section called Scale and Layout.

There are default settings of 100%, 125% and 150%, plus any specific for your hardware (you may see something weird like 119% or 147%), and under that drop down, the link Advanced scaling settings will take you to advanced settings, where you can allow Windowws to try to de-blur everything or not *and* set a custom scaling value to whatever you want from 100% to 500%.

See if that helps out with the overall items.

Do note that it affects everything, and is monitor dependent, so if you have multiple monitors, be sure to select your 4K model first.
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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by Gary M. Mugford » 2021 Mar 31, 23:27

John,

I have a pair of 4K monitors running full 4K ... else why get 'em in the first place? I do, in fact, run the recommended 150percent display adjustment. Sadly, my eyes require it. Main one's portrait, which I like, really, really like. The other's landscape for watching videos. And of course, there's no reason for running windows if you don't have a lot of windows open. Two browsers, x2, Evernote, Clipboard Fusion, Everything, vpn, Windows task manager, Programming ide. You know, the usual.

I have tried the advanced options adjustments Nikos points to. The ability to choose the max width turned out be valuable. BUT, touching the settings has resulted in my icons going tiny, even the ones I created, which were 32x32. I replaced one of those icons with a 128x128 version and ... nada. The customize right click menu shows small checked AND IS DISABLED. And nowhere could I find a place to enforce getting rid of that useless small setting. YES, I unzipped the 48pt ribbon, although I had to unzip it to a folder before being allowed to copy the two files to the install folder via QDir. i tried renaming various skins in the folder after each failure. Nothing worked. Sooooo, I'm left with uninstalling, re-installing remembering to uncheck that simple menu default option, and ... getting my icons back at a viewable, if still small size, and the fragmentary labels, or having labels with pinprick size icons. I'll end up choosing the icons without labels (the fragments verge on useless anways), probably. NOT MY CHOICE OF CHOICES. But it's the best of a frustratingly small lot of options. I continue to despise Windows 10 no matter the cadillac system I'm using it on. It's cost me a lot of agita with x2. And that's disappointing.

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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Apr 01, 00:34

Sorry to hear that you're having these issues. I see now - in my installation that setting is most definitely not disabled, and turning it on does make the icons a lot smaller.

But as to why it is happening to you, I cannot say.

BTW - you can export your settings to import them again later on so that you don't have to lose your customizations - I usually export as a .REG file that I can then import after installing X² on a clean install of Windows.....
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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Apr 01, 02:49

Gary M. Mugford wrote:
2021 Mar 31, 23:27
John,

I have a pair of 4K monitors running full 4K ... else why get 'em in the first place? I do, in fact, run the recommended 150percent display adjustment. Sadly, my eyes require it. Main one's portrait, which I like, really, really like. The other's landscape for watching videos. And of course, there's no reason for running windows if you don't have a lot of windows open. Two browsers, x2, Evernote, Clipboard Fusion, Everything, vpn, Windows task manager, Programming ide. You know, the usual.

I have tried the advanced options adjustments Nikos points to. The ability to choose the max width turned out be valuable. BUT, touching the settings has resulted in my icons going tiny, even the ones I created, which were 32x32. I replaced one of those icons with a 128x128 version and ... nada. The customize right click menu shows small checked AND IS DISABLED. And nowhere could I find a place to enforce getting rid of that useless small setting. YES, I unzipped the 48pt ribbon, although I had to unzip it to a folder before being allowed to copy the two files to the install folder via QDir. i tried renaming various skins in the folder after each failure. Nothing worked. Sooooo, I'm left with uninstalling, re-installing remembering to uncheck that simple menu default option, and ... getting my icons back at a viewable, if still small size, and the fragmentary labels, or having labels with pinprick size icons. I'll end up choosing the icons without labels (the fragments verge on useless anways), probably. NOT MY CHOICE OF CHOICES. But it's the best of a frustratingly small lot of options. I continue to despise Windows 10 no matter the cadillac system I'm using it on. It's cost me a lot of agita with x2. And that's disappointing.
I managed to recreate it.

You can copy over the x2skin_XL.png and / or the x2skin_48.png from one of the DLs and it seems to work perfectly fine. But if you replace the x2skin.png file you get your symptom with the small icons and the setting for small icons enabled and grayed out.

Easiest fix is to delete the x2skin*.png files from the X2 installation folder, then run the installer and let it install again over itself - settings are preserved, and the stock x2skin files are extracted into the program folder and the setting is not grayed out again.
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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Apr 01, 03:03

The way I figured it out was weird. I took Saboteur's files, and used Paint.net to upsize each to a larger size. So the XL he has, which are 24 pixel high icon strip I resized to 48 pix, and the 16 pixel I resized to 24, to see if I could get a larger 'small' icon set.

I named them appropriately, and then copied the x2skin_XL.png to the installation folder (now with 48x48 icons) - it works beautifully.

I copied the same file from where I edited it to x2skin_48.png (for use with the ribbon) and copied that over the the installation folder - the icons used in the ribbon interface changed, but are not showing at 48 x 48.

That's when I thought about replacing the regular X2 icones with 24 x 24 icons. I upsized the x2skin.png file to a 24 pixel high strip of icons, saved as x2skin.png, copied to installation folder, and upon restarting Xplorer 2 the main toolbar was showing very tiny icons and the small icons setting was both enabled and grayed out.

So, now I've only replaced the XL and 48 files, and have some beautiful large icons on my much smaller 1080p monitors (I'm buying a pair of 4K monitors soon, so doing this is a good bit of practice for me to be ready for the larger resolution.

@Nikos - is this intended behavior?
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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by dunno » 2021 Apr 01, 04:59

so glad it isn't only me.

*returns to hammock with large glass*

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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by nikos » 2021 Apr 01, 08:05

to clarify, the small icon skin is called x2skin.png and the big one x2skin_XL.png
if you install xplorer2 fresh, it picks the 48x48 skin for "large" and renames it appropriately
if you manually interfere, you must stick to the above names and make sure both bitmaps/icon strips have the same number of icons

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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Apr 01, 15:49

Ah, I assumed the x2skin_48.png was for the ribbon. Now I understand. So, in effect, replacing that x2skin_48.png file with anything shouldn't make a difference. Easy enough to test. And it seems the ribbon is hardcoded to use a specific sized icon set, regardless of what you throw at it, too (maybe 32 x 32?).

As soon as I replace the default x2skin.png with a modified file, it locks the toolbars down into small icon mode and locks that setting from being changed. Replicatable 100% of the time.
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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by nikos » 2021 Apr 01, 16:47

are you sure you have the correct number of buttons? see here for the requirements: www.zabkat.com/x2skin.htm

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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Apr 01, 19:34

Yes.

Here is *exactly* what I did.

I somehow found this link, I thought Gary had linked to it in his OP but I don't see it now:

https://www.zabkat.com/blog/high-dpi-sc ... olbars.htm

I downloaded the 48x48 skin .ZIP linked in that blog, and upon extracting, I noticed that it was the same size as the file already in my X² installation folder. Then, I perused your blog some more (or perhaps it was the forums), until I found this page:

https://www.zabkat.com/x2skin.htm

I'm not a designer, but I did still DL the designer pack. I may try to make one later on. However, I like Saboteur's icon packs, so I downloaded both 018 sabofx and 018sabofx_XL files.

Upon looking at the files and trying them out, I was only replacing the stock x2skin_XL.png and x2skin_48.png files, and I realized that the regular sabofx were simply still not large enough for my upcoming 4K monitors.

I then extracted the 018sabofx_XL .zip and found 3 files, x2skin.png, x2skin_XL.png and the 0-byte text file named "toolbar by saboteur.txt". I copied the x2skin_XL.png to my X² installation folder and restarted X² and sabo's icons showed - but not large enough for my liking on the non-ribbon classic toolbar. But the icons are superb, so I decided to see what I could do about it.

So, I opened Paint.net on my computer, loaded Saboteur's x2skin_XL.png, and then went to Image --> Resize. Enabling the option to "Maintain aspect ratio", the dimensions of the original file are 2136 px (width) by 24 px (height) with a resolution of 95.96 px / inch. With maintain aspect ratio enabled, I simply changed the height to 48 px, keeping resolution same, and presto, I had a larger icon-based XL toolbar. Saved it, copied it over, and upon restart the toolbar is using the new, larger sized icons on the non-ribbon tool-bar with the large size.

I then loaded the saboteur x2skin.png and did image --> resize, and it has dimensions 1424 px (width) x 16 px (height) with res 95.99. when I went to adjust 16 --> 24, it had same dimensions of original XL file - so I re-extracted original XL file, renamed to x2skin.png, and copied to X² installation folder, restart X² - and poof! toolbar is now locked into small icon mode, and the option is both enabled and grayed out so it cannot be changed.

Deleting the x2skin*.png and then running X² installer recreates those files (which I've now made a copy of as x²skin*_original.png else where so I don't have to keep re-installing X² while testing.

If you would like either pictures or a small video I can make one up and email it to you. But as soon as that x2skin.png gets replaced, x² thinks something is broken and gets forced into small icon mode.

Normal installation on Windows 10 20H2, using registry to save settings (not portable mode).

Anything else you need in terms of data / testing, please let me know.
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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by nikos » 2021 Apr 02, 05:15

I think the "small" skin must be 16 pixels, fixed. The big one _XL can be any size you like

ps. small icon size is constrained to system small icon size, so if you have normal DPI that will be 16, otherwise it can be bigger. This is used for menus so it cannot be huge

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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Apr 02, 16:05

That's probably the case, then - trying to use 24px icons killed it lol.

Still, though, it was a bit of fun playing around with the icon sets. I'm still trying to figure out why the ribbon icons are smaller than the toolbar icons when I use the exact same file - so I suspect that it must be for the same reason - it's at a fixed size and doesn't care what sized icons you throw at it. But, unlike the small icons toolbar mode, it scales the icon to the preferred size.

Which leads to an RFF - allowing manual scalability for larger sized icons for all three toolbar modes and types?

I took a cheap way, and used Saboteur's existing set to bump the icons up to 48px from 24 - and you can tell. The icons are not crisp, they seem fuzzy, a bit anyway, - and that makes perfect sense, when you think about how a photo looks after you zoom past its native resolution. If I have the time I'd love to create a new set, but that is a lot of icons, and I'm not a graphic artist, per se, so I'd have to find an existing set of icons to use to build the tool bar on. So don't expect anything from me any time soon.

But the ability to scale the toolbars (at least into a S/L or S/M/L settings) and simply throw in some garish 128 Pixel icon bars at it would be better, as the scaling would like a lot more pretty going down than going up, I think.

I know, this is probably not doable - but I'm still asking. :D
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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by nikos » 2021 Apr 02, 16:27

I don't know, you tell me what size large icons are good for your 4K monitor to be, and then I may add that size to the skin package

the ribbon probably has its own icon scheme based on system icon sizes, that's 16/32 for regular DPI (probably!)

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Re: 4K Video Issue with Toolbars ... REDUX

Post by johngalt » 2021 Apr 02, 18:07

the one Saboteur created was actually 16 / 24 (I doubled the 24 to 48 to make my 'custom' XL skin, and that is obviously showing some fuzziness when in use at 48 px).

Unfortunately, I cannot say right now what size would be nice - I don't have the 4K monitors yet lol. They are waiting to complete production and get shipped - currently supposed to be in about 2.5 weeks.

I'll try to grab some screenshots of how the 48px icons look in both Ribbon and non-small toolbar and post them. I suspect 48 will be fine, but want to make sure with the actual monitors - might need to bump up to 64 / 72, who knows?

Gary could probably tell us his pref size, that might help get a target size to start with.
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