Problems with Link Files - Any assistance from future X2?

[x2user]

IneedHelp said:
IneedHelp Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject:  
If you want to isolate a group of files from one or multiple larger groups, you could use symbolic links. Then you can create separate folders that act as containers for those files and then you can use x2 to manage them (i.e. open the files, delete the links or other operations). That's what I would do.


Hello Ineedhelp,

I have done this, extensively. But there is a big disadvantage to these, at least for .lnk files (Windows XP, I can't use the newer things, but I suppose they work just like the old .lnk files).

Problem is (if this isn't any more a problem, please rectify) that yes, you can rename the .lnk file, without the link being lost, but you cannot rename the original file, without the link being orphaned. Which means in practice:

Say you have an original file and 4 links in 4 subcollections. You rename the original file. Then you must go 4 times, to any such link (and first you must find those links!), and manually update the link there, which is to say, you must enter the new name of the original file in the inner things of the link file.

The same goes for moved original files.

The same goes for comments or other attributes of these links. On creating the link, you must manually replicate any comment or attribute of the original file within the link file, this is NOT done automatically, and then, on any move / rename of the original file, you have to replicate the comment or other attribute on EVERY such link file, since the moment the link is broken, all appears well there, but in fact, the moment you reconstitute the broken link there, the comments, etc. are GONE.

Of course, this is not criticism vàv x2, but vàv Windows, but not one of any file commanders of my knowledge does anything to help users with all this necessary manual work here.

Hence my question, could X2 in future versions do anything about this in order to assist?

Or do the respective link commands in Windows7 function better than .lnk files in Windows XP?

[IneedHelp]

I have done this, extensively. But there is a big disadvantage to these, at least for .lnk files (Windows XP, I can't use the newer things, but I suppose they work just like the old .lnk files).

When I suggested the use of symbolic links I was actually referring to symbolic links and not normal shortcut (.lnk) files.

The main advantage of symbolic links is that they are seen by applications as normal files and not as pointers/shortcuts to the original file. They are junctions (probably you're more familiar with this term). But yeah, renaming them or doing anything else that doesn't imply opening and editing the file has no effect on the original file.

If you wish to have multiple references to a source file and expect to keep all references synced between them and with the source file, then I guess that you are out of luck. You'd need file-references management software for that (i.e. an application which helps creating the references, monitors them and keeps them in sync with the other references and the source file).

[RightPaddock]

@x2user - Symbolic Links are not a replacement for Shortcuts (.lnk files) - they have different purposes, I have lots and lots of both.  

Symlinks are not accessible in the version of NTFS shipped with XP - but they are there.  You can get at them via Link Shell Extension if you install Masatoshi Kimura's filter drivers.  Browser search for Symbolic links for Windows XP in here for more details ===>>> Link Shell Extension

I haven't used the drivers on XP (I'd already moved to Win 7 when Hermann found them), but I've been using LSE for about 6-7 years, from within & without X2, and it has always worked as advertised.  If Shinagl says Masatoshi Kimura's filter drivers work then I believe him.  There are 32 & 64 versions of both the drivers and LSE - download links are on the LSE site.

As IneedHelp wrote, SymLinks are a bit like folder junctions, except they work on both folders & files, but they suffer the same problem as junctions & shortcuts.  If the 'real' object is moved or renamed then you have to fix the links.  LSE provides the tool to do the repair but you have to know where to use it.  

When a shortcut gets broken, Windows can often do a repair when you click on the shortcut - providing you run the Distributed Link Tracking (DLT) service.  The name implies that the service is related to networks, and many so called experts will advise it be disabled.  It does work across networks, but it also works on standalone systems - disable the service and you lose link tracking & repair.

If you're only dealing with files and you want to have multiple links on the same drive then use hardlinks.  I think X2 will give you a link count on XP, but I don't think you can get a list of hardlinks on XP, you can get such a list on Win 7, via Properties->Link Details.  

In practical terms a hardlink is a entry in the Master File Table (MFT) that points to where the data is stored, all files have at least one hardlink, a so called hardlink is just another entry in the MFT pointing at the same data.

rp

[FrizzleFry]

Properties->Link Details is a feature of LSE not something built-in to Windows 7.

[x2user]

Thank you all very much for these tremendously valuable insights. Before reading you, I have started to make extensive use of scrap containers here in X2 in order to be not in further need of .lnk files for which the synching is really too complicated with on-board means, the Japanese tool was unknown to me then. After having made these changes, the real file within several such scrap containers instead of .lnk files, I can say that this intermediate solution suits me very well, even given the fact that for this, I depend on X2, but I'll search for the special program in order to have a good look, seems to be really good stuff.

[BRX]

@x2user -
In practical terms a hardlink is a entry in the Master File Table (MFT) that points to where the data is stored, all files have at least one hardlink, a so called hardlink is just another entry in the MFT pointing at the same data.

Do you know if the entry in the MFT can be read and used by programs like x2? If there's something like a specific hardlink ID that can be read I'd found it very useful if it could be displayed in a column in x2 so it can be searched for and sorted.

[nikos]

there is such a thing but it isn't available as a x2 column yet

[BRX]

there is such a thing but it isn't available as a x2 column yet

That's my point.

[RightPaddock]

Properties->Link Details is a feature of LSE not something built-in to Windows 7.

Of course it is, just goes to show how much LSE has become 'part of my furniture'.  

BTW I just noticed its "Link Properties" not "Link Details"

rp

[nikos]

xplorer2 does this already just press Ctrl+L on the link (any type)

[RightPaddock]

xplorer2 does this already just press Ctrl+L on the link (any type)

Sorry nikos, I realised I might have given a bum steer in my prior post, I was editing it, but then I got a dinner interrupt, meantime you posted.

Actually Alt/Enter works for me, maybe Ctrl/L is a V2 thing.  

If I don't want to open a Symlink target in situ, which is what I normally do, then because its an exceptional circumstance, I actually prefer to open it in an independent window, that's when I use LSE's Link Properties sheet feature.  

In my scheme of things Symlink targets are always end nodes in the folder hierarchy, whereas Shortcut targets are higher level Symlink container nodes.  Because I can easily drop into (Enter) and pop out (Backspace) of a Symlink, I have a little need to open Symlink targets other than where I am - i.e. in situ.  

I use Shortcuts to switch to another branch in the folder hierarchy.  I usually want to keep my current context in the current pane, so X2's Alt/Enter (Ctrl/L) feature to open the Shortcut target in the opposite pane is the ideal solution.

Using WE for one off, exceptional, or trivial tasks doesn't bother me.  

rp

[RightPaddock]

Actually I was right first time

Alt/Enter on a folder Symlink does open the folder in the opposite pane.

However, it opens it in the context of the Symlink's location, NOT in the context of the Target location - which is pointless, I can do that by simply pressing enter.

Alt/Enter on a folder shortcut opens target folder in the opposite pane - a subsequent backspace will take me to the PARENT of the TARGET.  

To be consistent an Alt/Enter on a folder symlink should do exactly the same - open the target folder, so that a subsequent backspace will take me to the PARENT of the TARGET.   But it doesn't do that - it takes me to the PARENT of the SYMLINK.  

I installed version 2.2.0.1 ULT [Unicode] 2012-10-06 (32 bit) to make sure. And its still the same, it opens the folder in the symlink location not the target location.  And for me it is still Alt/Enter - CTRL/L still does nothing.  

I use different icon overlays for shortcuts (dark blue arrow), hardlinks (red arrow) and symlinks (green arrow) - in version 2.2.0.1 I noticed that they are all black - thankfully its a peculiarity of version 2.2 - they're still blue, red & green in 1.87 and Windows Explorer.  

RP

[nikos]

how do you select icon overlay color?

[RightPaddock]

how do you select icon overlay color?

Link Shell Extension Configuration utility



BTW If you wanted to integrate X2 with something different you might want consider LSE, its written in C++ - you'd have to negotiate a deal with Herman, LSE is free but ...

RP

addendum - you probably wouldn't want the whole enchilada, you probably wouldn't be interested in De Lorean copies etc - just the core stuff for hardlinks, symlinks and junctions.

[RightPaddock]

I was seriously thinking about upgrading because a long standing coexistence problem I've lived with since I first got x2 appears to have been resolved.  

For some reason bits of Cfi's Shelltoys custom menus would 'clobber' bits of x2's menu bar, only X2's menus - menus in other programs were OK.  I learnt to live with it.  The main problem was that I would lose visibility, hence access, to the Edit menu - I resolved it via keyboard shortcuts etc.  The problem only occurs if the Shelltoys context menu customization feature is used.

However the monochrome icon overlay issue is a show-stopper.  I have 1,000s of folders that contain shortcuts, hardlinks and symlinks, so the multicolor overlay icons are really important to me.  

I'm puzzled why X2 does anything different with icon overlays than what Windows Explorer does with them.  IMO if WE can honour the settings I make via LSE then X2 should do the same.  

And in the old X2 that's exactly what it did (does) - so either you've inadvertently broken them, or you fixed something that wasn't broken and ...

And in X2 Version 2 I am seeing an awful lot of security lock icon overlays on files that I don't see as having them in 1.87 or in Win Explorer - that could be to do with icon overlay priorities.

I have a vague memory of us having discussion years ago about icon overlay problems - cant recall details or how it was resolved - or maybe its just deja vu

RP