Nikos: What on earth is going on in Greece with the riots?

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pschroeter
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Nikos: What on earth is going on in Greece with the riots?

Post by pschroeter » 2008 Dec 09, 14:47

There must be a lot of pent up frustration being released. Or is it just anarchist like the riots that happen when the World Trade Organization meets somewhere and they are people who like to see things burn.

Do you believe the police actually shot that kid for no reason and why did it happen?

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Post by nikos » 2008 Dec 09, 15:38

we are all scratching our heads here too!
some kid gets shot for no reason (?) then loads of other kids burn all city centres. My guess is as good as yours!

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Post by Kilmatead » 2010 Feb 10, 22:30

Not quite the same topic, but I liked the original title.

Speaking as one of the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, & Spain), you lads are in a position to really rather annoy 31% of the Eurozone.  If that happens, your disgruntled college kids are going to look like they were having a barbecue.

Take the paycut Nikos, tighten your belt, and don't drag my sorry arse down with you.  :D   :evil:   :D

(Which, with no small sense of irony, could be reversed to say "Take the paycut Kilmatead, and don't drag my sorry arse down with you.")  :oops:

How in the heck has Greece survived for a few thousand years?  Has anything ever gone right there?

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Post by nikos » 2010 Feb 11, 05:56

i have already expressed my disappointment for greece. All these guys you see in the streets are public sector workers with permanent jobs so they can do as much fuss as they like without fear. Petrol prices went up 20% overnight yesterday

on the other hand, doesn't the world have anything better to cover than greece? has anybody recently checked the national debt of USA? how big a dent can 10M idiots make? The whole world has gone absurd

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Post by Kilmatead » 2010 Feb 11, 07:39

nikos wrote: on the other hand, doesn't the world have anything better to cover than greece? has anybody recently checked the national debt of USA?
The US has, of its own choice, become the next wholly owned subsidiary of China.  That's what everyone else is trying to avoid.

Interestingly, the whole point of the EU monetary experiment was to avoid the centralising government which destroyed the individualism of the colony/states in the US so long ago (that said, I seem to recall that Texas actually reserves the legal right to secede from the union, if it so wishes, unlike the others).  If Greece fails (effectively) then the EU is forced to control Greek fiscal policy (as "someone" lied about what's in their pockets) which begins to lead the EU to having real (executive) power over individual states, as opposed to the imaginary power it pretends now (though EU courts are useful).

The Treaties of Maastricht (first) and Lisbon (most recent, and very strange) are beginning to tighten around our throats.

Greece might tie the knot (when everyone thought it would have been one the recent Eastern states, first).  Pretty much that's why everyone's paying attention to you.

Enjoy the limelight.

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Post by nikos » 2010 Feb 11, 09:11

greece may be in deep $#!+e but it has been like that since the 80's when socialist idiots saw fit to hand out (loaned) money to help the poor and the needy. Do you think we are so much worse than ireland? who knows? It's media sensationalism more than anything else

i was really amused to hear an 'opinion' by some US official who was observing greece closely but was confident that the EU would sort itself out... Better observe your own house, sucker!

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Post by nikos » 2010 Feb 12, 07:19

there's hype and there's figures
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8508136.stm

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Post by Kilmatead » 2010 Feb 12, 07:54

BBC wrote:EU President Herman Van Rompuy said a deal to help Greece had been agreed, but said further details would not be released until later on Thursday.
...which, oddly, they weren't.  Appears the Germans aren't in the mood to discuss their dislike of being the one everyone looks to for bailout money (not that one can blame them).  Its probably Greece's total lack of a "plan" (other than the usual "screw the little guy") which gets the EU commissioners a little upset.

But 112.6% GDP debt?  What did you spend it on?  At least Ireland got a lot of nice shiny new roads that no one can afford to drive on.   :roll:

They are nice roads though.

Smooth, with blinking lights and pretty signs and everything.

We got lots of shiny new buildings too (empty, as no one can afford to rent them).  With helicopter pads, and more blinking lights.

At least if I can't drive, I have somewhere to land.

Though I think the Germans want their helicopters back.  Bummer.  :cry:

[Edit] Oh yeah, Ireland's "plan" (called NAMA which interestingly met with smiles in the EU) was to give money to the banks (big surprise).

It's been dubbed Ireland's Viet-NAMA, unsurprisingly.

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Post by nikos » 2010 Feb 12, 16:19

the money didn't go to roads, schools, hospitals or any other tangible asset. I don't know where it is  :shock:

we spend a lot of money in weapons (thanks turks!) and lately tons of money in penalties from the EU for not complying to this or that brussels directive.

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Post by Kilmatead » 2010 May 05, 13:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking, but this post isn't about that, I promise. :D

It's interesting how people who are "innocent" tend to look younger... not innocent in the "culpability" sense of the word, but rather naïve "but in a good way," if you know what I mean.  It's true though, they tend to be less furrowed of brow, less furtive of eye, more open of visage in general.  Whether this is a good thing or not, I cannot say - as nature would have it they tend to be the first victims when something goes wrong.  Personally, I find it not "sweet" but rather more tiresome and (if I had my way) would have them all shot - but I suppose that's why humans generally aren't allowed to eat their young.  (And perhaps too, why I have yet to become supreme ruler of the universe. :sad:)

Anyway, with all this nonsense about Greece on the telly recently (I said this wasn't about that, and it's not), I've been doing some reading on 20th-century Greek history and happened upon a few articles pertaining to the Greek Dictatorship of 1967-1974 (and also this more reflective piece by a Greek commentator).

Basically in the same way as The Americans are largely innocent of their own history of fascism, as these things are not taught in schools, I happily admit to my own naïveté of CIA activities in Greece in the middle of last century, all of which seem to be rather well known, and dating back apparently, to how Greece was "managed" after the 2nd World War and the American interests therein.

Apparently not finding any willing takers in Italy (at the time), the CIA turned to Greece to nurture their own fodder and someone welcomed them in.

"Learn something new every day," as they say.

I would even claim innocence as regards why the CIA would even care about Greece, given that (echoing Nikos' own contemporary feelings) there really aren't enough of them to get too excited about, economically or otherwise.  Outside of Turkey though, historically it does represent Western Europe's interests on the foothills of Asia (so tread their footfells there, so tread the powers-that-be elsewhere).

Like any small nation (Ireland enjoys its own similar complaint : "Take our 800 years of oppression and shove it up your...") the inhabitants of Greece might have a small justification for their endlessly quarrelsome antics - "Nothing's our fault, we're all pawns" - and it's true, superficially.  As chess games play out, the importance of the small pieces rarely is known until the end-game begins.  Unfortunately for Greece, that end-game seems a long way off in the future, yet the inhabitants seem to feel it lurking in their hearts-of-today.

Like any notion of innocence and the counter-tell of darkly desirous mien, I wonder if there is some inkling of wisdom in nature's cultivation of the naïve and wide-eyed as to become pure victims for history's sake?  For what other good are youthful looks and wanton waywardness, if not to distract the eye while other forces commend us onward, afoot, unbeknownst to the greater good?

* * *

Ok, I promised myself I wasn't going to do this any more, but reading up on Georgios Papadopoulos I had to give it one last try.  They just seemed to have so much in common, given Nikos' revolutionary past and all, he needed to wear his national service uniform one last time to see if it still fits. :wink:

Image

Never trust Google to translate things, no doubt they are saluting poultry. :oops:  I'm thinking maybe "σε x2 εμπιστευόμαστε" is better?  (And for what it's worth, the badly painted/ill-fitting backdrop is intentional, as the original photo of the generals was itself almost comically doctored, so it made sense to leave it deranged, exposed/alpha-channel contrasted, and colourless - much like the legacy of the dictatorship itself.)

(I promise that's the last of the "Where's Waldo" series, I need something else to amuse my boredom, like a real job.  Unemployment is for chickens that lay no eggs.)

:baaa:

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Post by Kilmatead » 2010 Nov 17, 13:51

As Ireland is (within hours) about to join your sad club of IMF incumbents, did anything interesting happen when you lads were taken over by the world's most hated private bank?  They say Greece suffered from a rather endemic corruption problem which we (as far as anyone knows) do not... so perhaps the implementation of foreign rule (puppet government) will be slightly different, but - basically - is it possible my economic existence could get any worse? (As in, did they tax everthing in existence, or did anyone notice - besides the silly students?)

There's also the idea that we're about be ruled by Germany (the pretend purse-string holders), which would add a darkly amusing and somewhat sardonic footnote to World War II.

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Post by nikos » 2010 Nov 17, 14:33

the government has to kiss german @rse all the time and the people are always miserable. I am looking forward to the bankruptcy :)

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Post by Kilmatead » 2010 Nov 17, 17:38

Under the reign of Kaiser Wilhelm II, the government outlawed social dancing during World War I and censored nudity on revue stages...
Considering that "Jazz music was offensive to Nazi ideology" you must be suffering terribly with our new evil overlords.  Thankfully the Germans seem to have always had a strange affinity to this cold and damp land of limited nudity, so maybe they won't enslave too many of us on potato farms.  Oh, wait...

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Post by dunno » 2010 Dec 17, 08:54

Kilmatead wrote:
Under the reign of Kaiser Wilhelm II, the government outlawed social dancing during World War I and censored nudity on revue stages...
Considering that "Jazz music was offensive to Nazi ideology" you must be suffering terribly with our new evil overlords.  Thankfully the Germans seem to have always had a strange affinity to this cold and damp land of limited nudity, so maybe they won't enslave too many of us on potato farms.  Oh, wait...
Strange thing to blame the Germans for the rife corruption of the local aristocracy and politicians. The home grown politicos are the one's who are to blame for allowing the banksters to have raped and pillaged their respective financial systems in a manner not seen since the Vikings embarked on their little camping expeditions. Live beyond your means pay the price, the debt collector is knocking at the door, and he's Teutonic reeking of french garlic. I'm so glad I'm not a European tax payer who has to foot the bill for others extravagance.

Shoot all Banksters and Politicians, the horrible, contemptuous, corrupt little things.

However my european greek friends, if the despicable Ottoman caliphate resurrects itself, I will be by your side throwing "olives" at that nasty ideology.

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Post by Kilmatead » 2010 Dec 17, 10:13

dunno wrote:The home grown politicos are the one's who are to blame for allowing the banksters to have raped and pillaged their respective financial systems in a manner not seen since the Vikings embarked on their little camping expeditions.
When central banks are private institutions (including the American one), politicians have no real say in the matter.  They're just told what they're going to do, and they do it.  If it works, they take the credit - if it doesn't they blame the "speculators" or the previous regimes' policies.

Plus a little corruption on the side just to keep everyone happy.

Part of the trouble is who's playing with the "Markets"... these abstract things seem to be speculated upon by 22-year-old children who know nothing of the world, and yet seem to be put in charge of a system whose totality is beyond them.  Ironic how a (specific) education can make you apparently "qualified" for some meaningless task, yet totally incapable of making a real contribution to the world.  And then they expect a "bonus" to be paid as it's in their contract, win or lose.

I wasn't blaming the Germans specifically (though ideologically the Teutonic doctrines formulated throughout history and filtered to the modern day are highly suspect) - but as they're whining about how (in their minds) they are "footing the bill" and are waltzing around like they're in charge of something - they do make an easy and amusing target.

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