The VS IDE and the Dumbest Reason to Re-Install Windows...

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Kilmatead
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The VS IDE and the Dumbest Reason to Re-Install Windows...

Post by Kilmatead »

As a general system-tinkerer, and in spite of keeping image-backups, I often have cause to reinstall Windows from scratch - if for no other reason than annual house-keeping.

But just the other day I think I found the dumbest reason I could ever think of: To get an older version of Internet Explorer - and I don't even use IE!

Two questions come to mind - why would I want an older version of a programme I don't even use, and, if I was so desperate, why not just download one from the MS website?

The downloading thing is easy to answer: Windows 7 comes with IE8 pre-installed, and if you "upgrade" it to 9 or 10 (especially 10) either manually or via Windows Update, you can't actually "roll back" - Windows won't let you install an older version, so the installer fails.

So why would I want to do this? Recently I was toying around with a bunch of different IDE's - everything from the Orwell strain of Bloodshed, to Code::Blocks, to proprietary interests (just to see if they do anything different).

Back when I was a kid, the best thing in the world was the Turbo C IDE from Borland... I lovingly spent thousands of hours staring at this sort of thing...

Image

I remember spending a year and half saving up my 200-quid to buy it, and gloriously paging through the manuals and the thousand pages of function references, all laid out in a nice clear manner for the beginner - and all of it printed on real paper! I paged through those references so much I wore out the binding and the books began to fall apart so I separated everything out into 3-ring-binders to preserve it even longer.

Did you hear me? I said REAL PAPER! Oh, to kill a tree for a noble purpose again! Whatever happened to the good old days?

The irony, of course, is that back then products only shipped with paper - they didn't start shipping with digital copies (not even text files) until later, so even simple things like <F1> highlighted contextual help didn't amount a much more than "This is how you compile things" - not true function references or anything as useful as that.

Much like Jesus between the ages of 13 and 30, very little is known about my life from 18 to 35 (I went wandering into the desert and never touched a computer again) - so I came back very late to the IDE game, and grew to be quite happy with <F1> contextual help, especially as found in the offline MSDN libraries supplied with Visual Studio.

Say what you will about MS, but it's almost universally agreed that they make one of the best IDE's (especially that integrated documentation), so I dug out an old copy of VS2008 (because I had an Academic license for it - don't ask), and sought to play with it. It seems in the more recent versions of VS, MS has removed the capacity to install offline versions of MSDN assuming that everyone just uses the internet these days. This is not always practical, so I wanted it done right.

Great - except for one thing: the contextual help for VS2008 only works with IE8 - it does not work with IE9 or 10 because every single page requested brings up a content-conflict which the new security protocols reject, forcing the user to manually verify each and every page - there is no way to disable this permanently. I know this because I wasted half-a-day trying.

So, the simplest way to get back to IE8 is to just reinstall Windows, which (at this late date) combined with the necessary updates for VS2008, inclusive of service packs and nonsense .NET updates, requires the better part of a day and over a GB of downloading.

At least it works. :shrug:

Now I just have to figure out how to reinstate all the necessary tweaks I conjured up over the last 24 months. :roll:

On the plus-side, at least I remembered to set up AHCI mode in the BIOS first this time, so that's one less tweak I need worry about. SATA IDE is truly dead. :D
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FrizzleFry
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Re: The VS IDE and the Dumbest Reason to Re-Install Windows.

Post by FrizzleFry »

at least it worked with IE8... it would have been even more of a PITA if you needed an older version... I guess you could have used a vm...
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Re: The VS IDE and the Dumbest Reason to Re-Install Windows.

Post by RightPaddock »

Next time try unchecking Explorer (see attachment) I think it puts you back to 9, my memory is you can then downgrade to 8 in the time honoured way

I had to do this on friends personal system - a senior Professor of Law at the ANU, the premier tax payer funded research university down-under. Her never used IE10 said it was broken. The political PTB had outsourced the assignment marking system to a 3rd party - none of the usual suspects, some tin-pot crew I've never heard of. It used a bespoke desktop program that needed a working IE9/10 - actually a working Trident

I asked what would happen if she had a Mac or Linux - "I guess I would have to do all the the marking at work on the Uni 'puter... "

After unchecking the Option, Win7 downgraded itself to IE8 or 9 (I forget which) and then upgraded itself to 10 (because I left the auto-update feature checked in the IE About box). AFAIK its been working since I did that a few months ago.

If something stops working in Win7 turning the feature of and on will often fix it. I fixed Search by flicking the Indexing Service switch. Yes, I had to rebuild the indexes, but given that I broke it I didn't mind too much. I tried to get it to index ePUBS using a doctored HTMLZ iFilter.

RP
Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) version 1809 - Xplorer2 version: Pro 2.5.0.4 [Unicode] x64 2014-06-21
Kilmatead
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Re: The VS IDE and the Dumbest Reason to Re-Install Windows.

Post by Kilmatead »

RightPaddock wrote:Next time try unchecking Explorer (see attachment) I think it puts you back to 9, my memory is you can then downgrade to 8 in the time honoured way
Yeah, I tried that first (hoping for a shortcut vaguely remembering myself that it's supposed to cascade backwards), but it had no effect on how IE interpreted the offline help resources - I think because I had (stupidly) installed IE10 manually (on top of IE9 from the year before), and unticking IE10 only dropped me back (as far as I could tell) to IE9, not IE8. (For example, when attempting to install the IE9 download - as an experiment - it happily aborted telling me that IE9 was already installed, even though I had actually installed IE10 - and that's with that tickbox unchecked!)

The moral of the story is just to never use, upgrade, recommend, look at, be polite to, or buy a drink for any version of IE.

(It had been a couple of years since I reinstalled Windows anyway, so it's no bad thing to clean the dross - even if it seemed like the astonishing number of [completely pointless] .NET updates from WinUpdate would never stop.
RightPaddock
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Re: The VS IDE and the Dumbest Reason to Re-Install Windows.

Post by RightPaddock »

There was a lot to be said for CuHM files.

Before I fixed my broken Search by flicking the Index Service off/on I 'wasted' most of a day doing an inplace install.

However, I was pleasantly surprised at how free of hassle it was. Just a couple of problems with Firefox and one other minor program, everything else was working just as I'd left it. A lot less work than a fresh install on fresh formatted drive which I used to do every couple of years. It was the first OS/refresh since I installed Win7 in Q3 2009, and it wasn't even necessary, although I was able to 'rediscover' a couple of lost context menu hacks.

rp
Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) version 1809 - Xplorer2 version: Pro 2.5.0.4 [Unicode] x64 2014-06-21
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