I discovered x2 from a link on Robert Helmer's Shell Extension City. (Actually, he was talking up 2xExplorer which I always thought was cool, but hadn't tracked in a few years.)
I've been playing with the Pro version for most of the afternoon and it looks like it's going to be everything I've been looking for. I do however have a few questions (and comments) and since this is my first post, I'm hoping this is the right place.
There seem to be some discrepancies between the latest version of the program and the PDF manual; things entirely missing from the HTML documentation that seem useful enough to include (such as a legend for the toolbar icons).
A number of the button labels are inconsistent with the documentation. This makes it difficult to identify the functionality and resulted in quite a bit of lost time:
1) "Tree sync" is documented as "Locate in Tree" -- which makes much more sense to me.
2) "Force" is documented as "Same Folder" which clones the current folder to the other pane -- this one was so cryptic that I only figured it out by reading about it in the manual and then looking for the icon.
Enhancement request: when organizing a toolbar, it would be exceptionally handy if it were possible to grab and move more than one item at a time.
Bugs(?):
1) When I customize a toolbar, the text description on every added icon says "drive" until the customize box is closed, in which case they get sorted.
2) In trying to get the tabs to appear at the top, I discovered that the default value of the setting is not "9" as stated everywhere, but actually "11". And if I understand the instructions, to get the tabs to the top, you are to add the new instruction (+256) to the existing setting, right? That should be a total of 267, but in fact, it seems to correct itself to 265.
Questions:
1) In reading through various posts about Firefox and the difference between the browser's tab behavior and that of x2, I saw mention of the future ability to remap the keyboard shortcuts. What's the status of that? Unfortunately, the shortcuts to navigate between tabs conflict with Winamp's global hotkeys function.
If, by chance, I could lobby for a particular interface design for this feature, the method and layout employed by UltraEdit is fantastic: easy to see available objects, their current mappings, and potential conflicts.
2) One thing I miss from the heady days of winfile is the inclusion of the ".." to navigate up a directory. Not only was it handy for moving up the tree, but you could copy things up by dropping them on the dots as if they were a folder. I know you can nav up by clicking the path segments in the bar -- which is a cool feature -- but I haven't found an easy way to copy files up. Can someone help? Might this be considered as a feature request?
3) Tab creation: It seems that whenever a new tab is created, it uses the active tab as its "home" position irregardless of what might be done with it. Is there any way to open a blank tab, or to open a tab that starts in a default location (i.e. not relative to the location of the active tab)?
4) Most of the spelling conventions in the manual seem to be the American flavor of English rather than that favored by ... well, anyone who isn't American. ("Behavior" instead of "behaviour" and such like.) But on page 50 of the PDF manual, there's an odd turn of phrase in the ongoing car metaphor: "accelerator, brakes, steer ring..." Is that the nomenclature for what we in the USA call a "steering wheel"?
5) I've read through the History Chain appendix and I think I've mostly got the concept. It's oddly different than the history function of web browsers. I'm wonder if there's any way to edit the history chain, e.g. could you purge the history forward or previous to the current location?
1st post: some newbie questions and comments
Moderators: fgagnon, nikos, Site Mods
a lot to go through so let's cut straight to the chase:
* toolbar buttons get "short" text that won't stretch too much causing a wide button. Commands in the manual are listed in terms of the corresponding menu item; the icon links menu and toolbars commands best
questions:
2. i guess the tree would be ideal to send things up. You can either set it to auto-sync with the active folder or manually do it at will
3. tabs are meant to be used as "new tab on this folder", where "this folder" is whatever you have selected
5. history chain is quite complicated. Except for immediate back/forward moves you may be better off using Alt+F2 (or equivalently right-click on a pane's titlebar)
* toolbar buttons get "short" text that won't stretch too much causing a wide button. Commands in the manual are listed in terms of the corresponding menu item; the icon links menu and toolbars commands best
questions:
2. i guess the tree would be ideal to send things up. You can either set it to auto-sync with the active folder or manually do it at will
3. tabs are meant to be used as "new tab on this folder", where "this folder" is whatever you have selected
5. history chain is quite complicated. Except for immediate back/forward moves you may be better off using Alt+F2 (or equivalently right-click on a pane's titlebar)
Just adding some points:
2. Why would you single out "copying upwards" as a special case?
Here are two of the many alternatives available:
**Press ALT while clicking on the path segments in the pane header. That will open the higher level folder in the opposite pane; but the active pane will continue to show the current folder. Then you can make several selections and transfer them to the opposite pane using any file-transfer technique.
**Alternatively, set up all destination folders as tabs in the other pane. Then drag-n-drop your selections, using CTRL/SHFT keys as drag-modifiers. Again, useful to sort your source folder into multiple destination folders.
4. Yes, you are right. Although the trend is to go the American way, auto parts are still called by the British convention in this part of the World. Let me know if there are other slippages like that. You can send me a PM if you like.
2. Why would you single out "copying upwards" as a special case?
Here are two of the many alternatives available:
**Press ALT while clicking on the path segments in the pane header. That will open the higher level folder in the opposite pane; but the active pane will continue to show the current folder. Then you can make several selections and transfer them to the opposite pane using any file-transfer technique.
**Alternatively, set up all destination folders as tabs in the other pane. Then drag-n-drop your selections, using CTRL/SHFT keys as drag-modifiers. Again, useful to sort your source folder into multiple destination folders.
4. Yes, you are right. Although the trend is to go the American way, auto parts are still called by the British convention in this part of the World. Let me know if there are other slippages like that. You can send me a PM if you like.
Only because I'm used to seeing/using it. Quite a number of file managers and FTP clients are set up that way, or at least they used to be.narayan wrote:Just adding some points:
2. Why would you single out "copying upwards" as a special case?
Copying upwards, as well as simple navigation within the directory make sense to me. You can go down, so why not up? It's inconvenient to have to move out of a directory view -- to a toolbar or directory tree -- to do something as rudimentary as going up a level.
Granted, x2 has the clickable header, which puts it far ahead of Windows Explorer, but I thought I'd ask about the copying issue.
Mostly, it's an issue of learning a new piece of software. You only come at something as a "blank page" once. After that, whatever you do is informed by past experience.
I like the suggestion about creating a set of source and target directories. I have a tendency to open a lot of file manager windows, and that's a close approximation of the way I work.
I'll do that. I plan on reading through the manual. If I find anything that looks out of sorts, I'll give you a heads up.4. Yes, you are right. Although the trend is to go the American way, auto parts are still called by the British convention in this part of the World. Let me know if there are other slippages like that. You can send me a PM if you like.
Thanks for all the advice!
Q1: WinAmp's global hotkeys can be redefined, though personally I use a module in DreamKeys to control WinAmp, and what WinAmp defaults to doing with Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right, I do with Ctrl+Shift+[/].
Q2. Is F5, "..", Enter easy, or do you prefer a mouse? Or maybe Ctrl+I, Tab, BackSpace, Tab, if you like to see the other directory.
Q2. Is F5, "..", Enter easy, or do you prefer a mouse? Or maybe Ctrl+I, Tab, BackSpace, Tab, if you like to see the other directory.
I realize that. But Winamp is on many more machines than x2, and it makes more sense to make your applications play nice than for one to say "this is the only possible way to do [whatever]." To require a user to relearn something they're already comfortable with, is not a particularly considerate way of approaching things.Dhamu wrote:Q1: WinAmp's global hotkeys can be redefined, though personally I use a module in DreamKeys to control WinAmp, and what WinAmp defaults to doing with Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right, I do with Ctrl+Shift+[/].
Honestly, the idea of HAVING to combine mouse activity and typing to do something is completely antithetical to the user experience. (Typing being different than simply holding down shift or control as a click modifier.)Q2. Is F5, "..", Enter easy, or do you prefer a mouse? Or maybe Ctrl+I, Tab, BackSpace, Tab, if you like to see the other directory.
Any application that has extensive keyboard control does so because some people don't like having to mouse through things to get the job done. It's a speed and efficiency issue.
Likewise, there are folks who -- for whatever reason -- don't memorize keyboard shortcuts. But that doesn't mean that their usability experience should suffer because of it.
Mostly, I wind up using the mouse to browse and select a few things (or a whole bunch of things), then do something with them. If I want to do something as remedial as copying up a directory, I should be able to do that quickly and efficiently with the mouse. (You notice that you can't drop files on a path segment, even though they're otherwise clickable -- why not?)
If I wanted to do it via the keyboard, I'd learn how (but quite frankly, I've got too many keyboard shortcuts from too many programs in my head to learn any more) -- and, while I'm thinking about it, your four keystroke sequence to open up a mirror directory and go one up, is just overkill. I'm sure you've probably seen the usability studies for web design that dictate that visitors should never be more than two clicks away from whatever they're after (otherwise they tend to get bored and leave your site)? Application interfaces (of any sort) should be as efficient -- and big software companies invest lots of money in usability studies to make sure their products don't leave users frustrated and scratching their heads
In my opinion, the file manager is the most fundamental and essential thing you can have on the computer. You use it to find, launch, and manage all of your data. Therefore -- no matter how complicated it might be, and how powerful it is -- it should be the easiest, most transparent thing in the world to operate. The metaphors should be consistent, and not conflict with other applications.
My initial questions were not intended to be critical -- nor do I hope that anyone take this post as any sort of attack. After twenty some odd years of using file managers, I've gotten used to seeing certain types of functions and behaviors, and was trying to find out if they were implemented (or might be) in x2.
What makes WinAmp special? There are many programs that can use global hotkeys. How can every program manage to pick keys that don't conflict with anything? The burden has to be on the global program to adapt itself to others, not the reverse.akahige wrote:To require a user to relearn something they're already comfortable with, is not a particularly considerate way of approaching things.
We've fundamentally different ideas of how a file manager works. I can't think of anything I'm less likely to use a mouse in. I think the only time I use a mouse in xplorer² is when I touch a filetime, since the process has changed from a two-key sequence in 2xExplorer to six or seven keys in xplorer².the idea of HAVING to combine mouse activity and typing to do something is completely antithetical to the user experience.
Then phrasings like not... particularly considerate and others might best be avoided.My initial questions were not intended to be critical...
akahige, you are right, in theory.you can't drop files on a path segment, even though they're otherwise clickable -- why not?
In practice, however-
1. The parent folder (n levels up) usually has a lot of other subfolders as well. How are they ruled out as candidates as drop targets?
2. How are the parent folders far more suitable as drop targets, as compared to any other folders on the disk?
This question must be carefully examined when considering a new feature; especially if it meant to achieve a specialized task which only a few people use.
Just because it seems possible is not a good enough reason to implement a feature. On the other hand, if "drop selection in a parent folder" happens very frequently in practice, then such a feature makes sense.
But at least we have never come across this need in these forums.
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Still, if you do require this specific command routinely, probably you should examine how do they land in some levels down in the first place.
And does it happen in only one specific directory, or all directories?
Once you resolve the root cause; it will save you a lot of reorganization effort.
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But even without resolving the core issue, you can use one of the mechanisms already provided.
Particularly, the "Press ALT + Click on any parent segment in header pane" method is very simple and ideally suited for your requirement: It retains your current folder in focus, and loads the concerned parent in the opposite pane. With just one click.
You can also use the tree for this: while you are dragging the selection, you can change over to the tree, and hover the mouse on any node. It will open up automatically. You can drill down to any desired level and drop your selection.
As I said, it is even better to open up a few tabs with your usual destination directories. You can even save them and re-load them whenever you want.
Note that the tab areas themselves act as drop target. Further, if you hover the mouse for some time, the tab opens. There are two different purposes of doing this:
* Check before you drop the selection: is this the correct folder?
* Drop the selection in one of the subfolders in the pane
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BTW None of the commands require typing AND mouse activities. (Only "modifiers", which are two keys max).
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I agree with Damu about global keys: depending upon your taste, you may go for any other application.
Some are:
1. MWSnap (or any other screen grabber)
2. Wordweb (a dictoionary that grabs the current word)
These applications themselves may have conflicts! Now who's to pass judgement as to which application should be undistrurbed??
Ok, might as well post it here.
I'm thinking about a little tweaking. Keep the Shift-F12 Combo. But I think the main reason for this dialogue is the changing of the dates (since you can change attributes with the F12 key as well).
Also I'm talking keyboard only (like always). Right now have to hit Space to make the dates editable. No tab or arrow will do.
I'd like it if typing away with numbers will already start to change the first part of the dates (the changed date if nothing, the created one if you turn the "focus" on it with tab).
Then I'd like very much the date combos to behave in a way I know from other applications:
It should jump to the next part of the date when typing away without the need to move to the next (for instance) month with mouse or arrows.
And last it would be nice it would be recognized if you type 04 in the year part that it's the year 2004, so it jumps to the last two digits and adds the correct century.
BRX
I'm thinking about a little tweaking. Keep the Shift-F12 Combo. But I think the main reason for this dialogue is the changing of the dates (since you can change attributes with the F12 key as well).
Also I'm talking keyboard only (like always). Right now have to hit Space to make the dates editable. No tab or arrow will do.
I'd like it if typing away with numbers will already start to change the first part of the dates (the changed date if nothing, the created one if you turn the "focus" on it with tab).
Then I'd like very much the date combos to behave in a way I know from other applications:
It should jump to the next part of the date when typing away without the need to move to the next (for instance) month with mouse or arrows.
And last it would be nice it would be recognized if you type 04 in the year part that it's the year 2004, so it jumps to the last two digits and adds the correct century.
BRX
It 2xExplorer it's Alt+N then T. Calling combinations one action, that's two. That's the whole operation, from open to closed. In xplorer² it's Shift+F12, Tab, Tab, Space (or Enter), Tab, Enter. Your sequence doesn't work for me. When I do that, I'm left highlighting the year in Modified, and haven't actually done a thing yet.BRX wrote:4 actually(Shift-F12, Space, Arrow right) and I was going to suggest an enhancement of this dialogue to Nikos anyway.
Since the Modified state varies, hitting Space there can either deny you access to the Now button or not. Underlining some letters, so that I could do Alt+N for Modified's Now and Alt+W for Created's Now, and Alt+O to OK and exit, would get the sequence in xplorer² down to three keys to match what 2xExplorer does in two: Shift+F12, Alt+N, Alt+O. I don't think having a few extra quick keys here would inconvenience anyone.