Menu layout - Cleanup/Improvement

narayan · Post by **narayan** » 2007 Aug 23, 15:15

Of course that is how we put forward our opinions; and argue for/against them, so that the most robust idea is identified.

My point in the last post was that we already have a Customize menu at top level. If we remove it and move its submenus to the "Tools" menu, we would be making them less obvious.

I agree with the suggestions Scotwall has given. If my own suggestions (and others) are added to them, a new menu system emerges that is very logical.
The user will be able to predict where to look for any given function.

ScottWall · Post by **ScottWall** » 2007 Aug 27, 13:21

Scotwall and I can argue that they should be under the Tools menu because we are used to the way things have been with other programs but we are merely trying to apply logic in the given situation.

Actually, I'd prefer to argue narayan's preference to make the Customize menu a separate menu. The only reason I suggested putting Customize under Tools was to appease users opposed to sweeping changes in the menus and radical (and justifiable) departures from other applications.

I feel the name of the 'Tools' menu is rather vague and gives the impression of invoking external programs. This is a false impression. It may be noted that after the Options item is moved to 'Customize', the remaining items all pertain to actions invoked on the active pane. Perhaps, the name of the Tools menu should be changed to 'Active Pane' to improve clarity. Or, if it was changed to 'Pane', then all of the items that pertain to actions that involve both of the dual panes could be added (after a separator). For example, the last four items in the GoTo menu involve both panes and could be moved to the Pane menu. Likewise for items that pertain to the inactive pane.

wasker · Post by **wasker** » 2007 Aug 27, 14:18

ScottWall wrote:- move Exit and Close from the File menu to the Window menu, moving the Window menu to the extreme left as Exit is typically in the left-most position

File/Close (Exit) is a part of CUA, so it's not changeable.

ScottWall wrote:- perhaps rename the Edit menu to Clipboard and include in it any item that affects the clipboard and move Copy to..., Move to... and Queue status somewhere else, maybe File.

Clipboard operations in Edit menu is a part of CUA as well.

fgagnon · Post by **fgagnon** » 2007 Aug 27, 14:47

A general comment for discussions:
I know you know what you are talking about; but please define your acronyms at least once in the thread, so less knowledgeable users don't have to go search and be confused.

Wasker, this is not meant to be directed to you specifically; but your last post provided a good example of what can confuse (vs educate) folks who are following the thread to learn about various topics.

Thanks,
-fg-

e.g. - pick one of the following for CUA --
CUA Canadian Urological Association
CUA Carrier Utilization Agreement
CUA Catholic University of America
CUA Catholic University of Angola
CUA Center for Ultracold Atoms
CUA Centralized User Administration (Nortel)
CUA Certified Urologic Associate (nursing)
CUA Certified Usability Analyst
CUA Circuit Unit Assembly
CUA Clean Up Australia
CUA Co-Utilization Agreement
CUA Combat Useable Asset
CUA Commercial Use Authorization
CUA Common User Access
CUA Commonly Used Acronym
CUA Communications Unit Automation
CUA Compassionate Use Act of 1996 (California)
CUA Computer User Access
CUA Connection Update Acknowledge
CUA Cost Utility Analysis
CUA Credit Union Atlantic (Nova Scotia, Canada)
CUA Cross-, Up-Selling and Accessories Products (SAP Internet Sales Web-Shop)
CUA CU Aerospace (Champaign, Illinois)

PS - The Best? definition I found for CUA ( & self defining for an undefined acronym ) is ... ...

Completely Useless Acronym

my apologies ... I couldn't resist. :roll:

wasker · Post by **wasker** » 2007 Aug 27, 14:58

It stands for Common User Access. A set of guidelines for interaction with menus, dialog boxes and other UI stuff. CUA in windows has defined this File/Edit/View/Window menu stuff.

fgagnon · Post by **fgagnon** » 2007 Aug 27, 15:02

and, back on topic,
It is an important mandate to follow.

narayan · Post by **narayan** » 2007 Aug 27, 15:24

More:

Many of the options in the "File" menu actually should be in the "Edit" menu.
One example is "File > Edit".

FrizzleFry · Post by **FrizzleFry** » 2007 Aug 27, 16:52

That's just plain silly.

The Edit menu deals with clipboard and file copying/moving operations.
The Edit command (in the File menu) executes the preferred text editor with the selected file(s).

While I agree that the name of the Edit menu is somewhat misleading or confusing, having Cut/Copy/Paste in the Edit menu is standard Windows usage.

Thracx · Post by **Thracx** » 2007 Aug 27, 17:59

Why not just make the MenuBar read all it's entries from an XML file? (or whatever storage system Nikos wants to use) Nikos provides the 'default' layout (hard-coded or otherwise), but anybody who want's their own custom MenuBar can simply swack what they don't want from the XML file and make a custom one.

The XML file would simply be to associate MenuBar/ToolBar/KeyboardShortcuts entries with the X² command name that it needs to be given to do the work. Most users wouldn't see any difference, but power users can get their power-hunger satisfied.

narayan · Post by **narayan** » 2007 Aug 28, 02:31

having Cut/Copy/Paste in the Edit menu is standard Windows usage.

well, Word 2007 does not have Edit menu at all. The copy and paste functions are in "Home" group now.

Anyway, the M$ apps should not be treated as the Bible for policy-setting. Even M$ changes its products with time, despite having such a large customer base that has developed strong habits.

Coming back to editing: For a file manager, "editing" means clipboard operations and also renaming.

File > New tab does not make sense. A new tab has nothing to do with a file.

wasker · Post by **wasker** » 2007 Aug 28, 02:45

narayan wrote:
having Cut/Copy/Paste in the Edit menu is standard Windows usage.
well, Word 2007 does not have Edit menu at all. The copy and paste functions are in "Home" group now.

Word 2007 has completely different UI paradigm. Don't compare oranges to apples.

FrizzleFry · Post by **FrizzleFry** » 2007 Aug 28, 03:37

narayan wrote:File > New tab does not make sense. A new tab has nothing to do with a file.

That I do agree with. Maybe new tab should go in the Action menu although I do not really like the Actions menu much either.

narayan · Post by **narayan** » 2007 Aug 28, 09:37

Hi Wasker,

Of course the paradigm is different. And that's the point I was making: While some of us hold M$ as reference, they have gone ahead and changed the whole paradigm!

Post by **nikos** » 2007 Aug 28, 11:02

look, xplorer2 has tons of commands and it would be hard to find things no matter where you put them. Once you find what you need first time, it will be easy to find it in the future

the present positions have to stay since now most of us are used to them

wasker · Post by **wasker** » 2007 Aug 28, 11:24

narayan wrote:Of course the paradigm is different. And that's the point I was making: While some of us hold M$ as reference, they have gone ahead and changed the whole paradigm!

But the fact they used another paradigm (much better I would say) for Office suite doesn't mean the "old" one is useless. BTW, it's very hard to imagine such kind of paradigm for file management.