old skool programming

[nikos]

old hands in programming will have fond memories reading this article

L error in data 0:1

[Kilmatead]

Invoking Interrupt 21h was the closest thing I could get to a girlfriend, back then; it was desirable and enigmatic, yet unforgiving and capricious.

Ok, I was twelve I think at the time, so TSR's (or interrupts in general) were always going to be seen as a prelude to a promiseland.

The article neglected to mention just how difficult it was for "code at home" children to get their own compilers back then.  I actually wrote a rudimentary Pascal interpreter in Basic just for fun, as the Basic I was using at the time was easier to convert directly into Assembly (using templates I stole from school) than anything from scratch.

And then I saw Wargames and couldn't figure out how Matthew Broderick got Ally Sheedy.  Just didn't seem fair.

Still doesn't.

But I digress...

[fgagnon]

a a a a a a a h ,
the memories.  

[nikos]

war games is an absolute classic. Even watching it now after all these years it's amazingly well done and down to the smallest detail... they even talked about firewalls 25 years ago  :shock:

they don't make them like that any more... take that swordfish, what a load of bollox! (to the technically initiated)

[Kilmatead]

I'm beginning to wonder if masochism is a genetic thing, or environmentally based?

You'd think that when (whoever it was) invented scripting they'd have said, "Right, from now on everyone will conform to this and the world will live in Communist Peace."

Indeed, I imagine they did say that, but then a few months later their neighbour said "Ah, but wait: <language-X> has better syntax and a more global grammar structure!"

But, just because he's a Machiavellian bastard, the neighbour on the other side said "I hate nature, nature hates me, I hate communists, communists hate me, I have an idea! - let's allow for the total splintering of all mnemonic syntax, any reasonable sense of commonality, and just let everyone do what they want!"

And thus, as I see it, the world conspired to drive me mental yesterday in a leisurely holiday of scripting hell.

First, I wanted to modify some things in Thunderbird, so I had to wade into the waters of CSS to fight the cowardly lion.

Then, as I was bored, I decided to add a small mod to Company of Heroes and a dusty copy of Homeworld 2 - so, Lua it was... which actually wasn't too bad, kind of familiar in a "smells like a dead-mouse behind the fridge" sort-of-way.  That tin-man was a friendly bloke, but had no heart.

But the real pièce de résistance was a crash-course for messing around in scripting for the Gimp with Script-Fu, which is a subset of Scheme (I have no doubt it was a secret Nazi plot) which is a subset of Lisp - which history says stands for "List Processing" but I believe the lore version instead, which is Lots of Irritating Stupid Parentheses.  (Which proves even Dorothy would have eaten Toto if she got hungry enough.)

I mean, who in their twisted little dreams thought it was a good idea to segregate operands, conditionals and functions all at the beginning of a statement?

Code: Select all

; (if (and
;      (or (and (>= light 45) (<= light 75))
;      (and (>= light 135) (>= light 105)))
;      (= shadow TRUE))

Inhuman, I say!  I mean, look at it, the first 4 keywords are "if and or and"!  A logic nightmare.  All I wanted to do was mod a script I found to automatically draw a free arrow, add a drop-shadow to it, merge the arrow and shadow layers, and make a cup of tea.  How hard could it be? - I didn't even need to do the hard part, someone else wrote the base of the bloody thing.



(Well I had to have a base-picture to test it on, didn't I?  When you run the same script 100 times in a day checking for bugs it helps to have something to look at. )

Yeah, completely gratuitous, but I don't care.  :D

And yes, I know things like Paint.NET and such can do arrows in their sleep quite easily, but that wasn't the point.  I hate having to use 3 different programmes to do 1 thing almost as much as I hate having to use 3 different scripting languages to do many things.  :? I mean, no one even thought to standardise commenting!

And yes, I'm aware that Gimp can tolerate Python (but I just couldn't face it) and plugins can be written in C but if you've ever tried to compile Gimp on Windows (with its myriad of libraries) you'd know what a sticky wicket that can be.

Oh, and the Scarecrow?  He was just Machiavelli in disguise to corrupt your if and or and children.

I give up.  The things we do just for little pointy things.  <Whistles while flicking a fag into the gloom>.

Disclaimer: for all you conservative and politically correct American-types out there, a 'fag' in the rest of the world is what a cigarette is called.  Sheesh.

Rant over.

[Tuxman]

Hmm, basic programming knowledge in "old school" techniques is fine. (Looks like I'm more "old school" than I actually thought.

But the real pièce de résistance was a crash-course for messing around in scripting for the Gimp with Script-Fu, which is a subset of Scheme (I have no doubt it was a secret Nazi plot) which is a subset of Lisp - which history says stands for "List Processing" but I believe the lore version instead, which is Lots of Irritating Stupid Parentheses.  (Which proves even Dorothy would have eaten Toto if she got hungry enough.)

Lisp? Lisp is known for being used in Emacs which is enough reason for me to dislike anything based on it.

I mean, who in their twisted little dreams thought it was a good idea to segregate operands, conditionals and functions all at the beginning of a statement?

Jan Łukasiewicz, basically.

(Well I had to have a base-picture to test it on, didn't I?  When you run the same script 100 times in a day checking for bugs it helps to have something to look at. )

Hmm, looks like a request for help. Does she have too little money to eat something? Poor one.

And yes, I'm aware that Gimp can tolerate Python

Python, Lisp.. no brackets, many brackets.. both of them are somewhat ridiculous.

[Kilmatead]

Jan Łukasiewicz, basically.

Curiously,

However at the end of the war he found refuge in Nazi Germany, in the village of Hembsen, where he was brought for his own safety due to accusations of collaboration with the Germans. Following the war he emigrated to Ireland and worked at the University of Dublin until his death.

I did mention it was a plot/conspiracy against me personally, didn't I?  Polish notation, indeed.  Dig up Descartes, and he'll sort these guys out.

Lisp is known for being used in Emacs which is enough reason for me to dislike anything based on it.

Never understood the antipathy Emacs seems to inspire... some people love it, others hate it, there seems to be no in-between.  Odd, considering it's just a silly tool.

Does she have too little money to eat something? Poor one.

Never a big fan of fleshy fräuleins myself... to each their own.

Python, Lisp.. no brackets, many brackets.. both of them are somewhat ridiculous.

My point exactly... Lua (though getting a bit old now) seems the most friendly, at least having a few conventions in common with "real" languages.  Being an old-fashioned "plain" C type myself (now well out of practice), I wear my prejudices on my sleeve.  I don't believe in objectivity on any level.  :roll:

I am just a bricklayer after all - this scripting nonsense is over my meagre little head.

[Tuxman]

Never understood the antipathy Emacs seems to inspire... some people love it, others hate it, there seems to be no in-between.  Odd, considering it's just a silly tool.

Unlike Vim.

to each their own.

Wasn't that mentioned on a known KZ?  :twisted:

[Kilmatead]

KZ?

[Tuxman]

Concentration Camp, "Konzentrationslager", shortened form "KZ", whyever.

[Kilmatead]

Ah, Buchenwald.  Never got to that one back in my touristy days; once you've seen one "KZ", it rather puts you off seeing others.

As this relates,

"Jedem den Seinen": Although the literal translation is "To each their own," figuratively it means "Everyone gets what he deserves."

Google translate gives "To each his family".

Learn something new every day.

[Tuxman]

once you've seen one "KZ", it rather puts you off seeing others.

Yep, rather boring.

Google translate gives "To each his family".

Google Translator did something right here (the first time I notice that); "die Seinen" ("the his ones") are a German paraphrase for one's clique. But I actually doubt that was meant.

[Kilmatead]

Can't say it was "boring" exactly (then again, I didn't grow up "force-fed" with the cultural inculcation)... more "interesting" in an historically macabre sense: I didn't take photographs, but then again, I never do.

"clique" is generally what segregation is all about... but it certainly wasn't what I meant... as of course you and your spooky comprehension of English idioms already sussed...

One day we'll catch you out...

In the meantime, "thin chicks rule", Script-Fu does not.

[Tuxman]

One day we'll catch you out...

Good luck.

In the meantime, "thin chicks rule", Script-Fu does not.

Thin chicks are somewhat spooky. I wonder what having sex with them feels like. But I actually don't want to know it. Speared by a chest does not sound like a reasonable death.

[Kilmatead]

Speared by a chest does not sound like a reasonable death.

I could make a few jokes about how in some cultures falling on one's sword would be considered an honourable death, but this thread is quickly heading for the gutter as it is.

Unless one wishes to debate the philosophical overtones of what a reasonable death entails?  Socrates and Cato never considered scripting as a viable cause and effect, but I'm leaning towards endorsing it.

Actually, truth be told, once you get over the initial problems of Script-Fu it does become easier and I'm becoming somewhat adept at it.  I do remember hearing that for 2.8 (Gimp-wise) they're aiming to eliminate it, but my memory as to where I read that is hazy.

As Python is implemented in Blender, maybe it's the better path...

(See what I'm doing here Fred, I'm trying to rise above the bait and turn the topic around for once.  I should get some points for that, at least. )