Feature request: easier settings export-import

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Ross
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Feature request: easier settings export-import

Post by Ross »

Hi, I always remember to save the registry file with my current settings. However, for a reason I don't know, my custom user commands are not imported, then I have to manually add them back again when reinstalling x2.

For instance:

Code: Select all

; EXTRACT RAR TO OPOSING PANE
> "C:\Program files\WinRAR\WinRAR.exe" x "$F" "$I\"

; EXTRACT RAR HERE
> "C:\Program files\WinRAR\WinRAR.exe" x "$F"

; COMPACT TO RAR, ASKING FOR FILENAME, OPOSING PANE
> "C:\Program files\WinRAR\WinRAR.exe" a "$I"\"$?" $S

; COMPACT TO RAR, ASKING FOR FILENAME, RIGHT HERE
> "C:\Program files\WinRAR\WinRAR.exe" a "$?" $S

; COMPACT TO RAR, USING CURRENT DIR NAME
> "C:\Program files\WinRAR\WinRAR.exe" a $C $S


I saved that in a txt file so I can remember the commands.

Why don't they come along with the imported settings?

Thanks!
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Post by IneedHelp »

Normally they should be included in the exported ini/reg file.

If you want to do it manually, then just export:

Code: Select all

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ZabaraKatranemia Plc
It contains all x2 settings, editor included.
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Re: Feature request: easier settings export-import

Post by Kilmatead »

Ross wrote:Why don't they come along with the imported settings?
They do - but what you are describing is what happens when you try to import the savings REG while x2 is running - and some settings, such as User Commands, are semi-"live" within the registry while x2 is running, so you effectively added them to the registry, but overwrote the values with blanks.

In short, always make sure x2 is not running (exit using <Alt-X> if need be) before you import the registry file using windows explorer.  Yes, the irony of requiring Win explorer for this does not escape notice, but Nikos is not especially celebrated far and wide for his common sense or his linear thinking - which no doubt explains the clause in his prenuptial agreement which states that his wife shall be in charge of all household finances in perpetuity, regardless of what personal opinion he may have on any given matter.
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Post by Ross »

Tips noted, thanks INeedHelp & Kilmatead. I got the thing about not using x2 when importing the .reg file; the settings are saved when we close the program, so they'll be overwritten. I understand and I personally don't think this is a *limitation*.

Just didn't get the idea about talking about Nikos' marital life!
They do - but what you are describing is what happens when you try to import the savings REG while x2 is running - and some settings, such as User Commands, are semi-"live" within the registry while x2 is running, so you effectively added them to the registry, but overwrote the values with blanks.

In short, always make sure x2 is not running (exit using <Alt-X> if need be) before you import the registry file using windows explorer.  Yes, the irony of requiring Win explorer for this does not escape notice, but Nikos is not especially celebrated far and wide for his common sense or his linear thinking - which no doubt explains the clause in his prenuptial agreement which states that his wife shall be in charge of all household finances in perpetuity, regardless of what personal opinion he may have on any given matter.


Thanks for your attention!
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Post by Kilmatead »

Ross wrote:Just didn't get the idea about talking about Nikos' marital life!
If one does not "take the piss" out of one's Führer from time to time, they begin to get a head on them and actually believe their own philosophies and propaganda to be true, and nothing good can come from that. :wink:

For example, you entitled this thread "Easier Settings Export-Import" - and indeed during the normal course of using a programme, the user should never encounter a situation where he could lose any settings data.  In this instance, Nikos could fix this easily enough, but he's stubborn in his thinking that the world of software development has not actually progressed in the last 10 years and so he need not concern himself with such ergonomic minutia.  If you were to search the forum for things related to this, you would find many threads where someone should have stood up and said, "this is kind of dumb - why not just fix it?" - but, alas, so few do.

To wit, try explaining why needing to use Windows Explorer to reinstall your settings file is not a limitation to someone who naïvely ticked the "explorer replacement" box during installation.

I'm not suggesting that these small details are of much importance in the larger scheme of economic collapse, cannibalism, and New York transforming from the New Jerusalem into the New Darfur - but that doesn't mean limitations and "awkward usage requirements" should be tolerated either.

And if I have to poke fun at the lateral-thinking buzzword in order to do it (the syndrome where otherwise intelligent people can't tie their own shoes), then that's an extra off-topic bonus for a Sunday morning and I'll run with it, as is my wont. :D

Developer Complacency is a terrible scourge which must be wiped from the face of the earth, and the devil always starts in the details.  :twisted:
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Post by Ross »

I'm beginning to get that. Still, I'm not really entirely into your vibe, your line of thinking, the philosophy you just used or, if that's the case, the drug you took this sunday morning. So, I'll comment on some things only, ok?
but he's stubborn in his thinking that the world of software development has not actually progressed in the last 10 years and so he need not concern himself with such ergonomic minutia.


Err, if I may, ergonomics is all that matters recently. Ease of use, comfort, and less # of clicks and taps. The touch devices are moving on, and they have this concept!
To wit, try explaining why needing to use Windows Explorer to reinstall your settings file is not a limitation to someone who naïvely ticked the "explorer replacement" box during installation.


As you could see, I used asterisks around the world *limitation*, in which I tried to mean that this is not _that kind of limitation_. It is a limitation, but not fatal one. That's because Windows Explorer is built-in Windows and is a part of the OS itself, so no one shall have it removed. Besides, by "Explorer replacement" I understood "application to substitute Windows Explorer in your daily needs, to be used instead of the native file browser", but not technically a part-of-the-OS replacement.

I mean, I replaced Windows Explorer with x², no questions asked. Replaced in application of choice.
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Post by Kilmatead »

By Explorer Replacement, I did not mean it figuratively (which is the way we all use it) I meant the checkbox in the installer which tries to redirect system calls to Explorer to call x2 instead - say, from the start button, or clicking desktop folders, etc.  Essentially it makes it more difficult to open Windows Explorer if you actually wanted to.  This mode (it even keeps x2 "open" in the background when closed) was added because people kept trying to do it anyway and the number of threads containing mildly dodgy registry-editing suggestions was getting out of hand.  It's not officially recommended (even if it is part of the installer), as its implementation is more half-arsed than anything, but it will do the job for those who find it necessary.  Unfortunately those people are usually the "lighter users" who would not necessarily understand why you can't just import old settings into a running process like virtually all other applications allow you to do (more or less).  Hence the 10 years remark - I sometimes wonder if Nikos has actually purchased a programme in that time and thus he will have seen that some things which were acceptable in the XP era are simply anathema now.  Not, of course, that anyone needs to worry about "touch devices" or anything like that - those aren't intended for (and probably never will be) heavy file-management - they're meant for "content consumption", which suits them fine.  That said, it might be amusing to offer a Structured Clips "app" next to the bog-standard Tiolet-Roll-My-Face "app" and see which proves more popular.

By Ergonomics, I was being facetious - I meant that virtually all functions should be available via menus (such as a logical "Import Settings"), which would not necessitate someone remembering to actually close x2 first, and then verifying that there are no background processes still running (such as is ridiculously added by the Replacement nonsense above).  I myself have forgotten this stricture a few times and have clicked on the registry file by accident - and I've been sipping the kool-aid for years now - so reiterating that suggestion in order to "help" other people rather sticks in my craw. :shrug:  Nikos tends to forget that people have higher standards these days - or, at least, one can but hope that they have.  (Obviously I'm referring to more than just this issue...)

As you can tell, this more practical view of ergonomics is no fun at all, thus my endless need to sneak in snide remarks about the Führer, his marriage, children, pets, and suspiciously historical dress-sense...

Image

...none of which is constructive in the traditional sense, but then if I wanted traditional, I'd be using Windows Explorer.  Or an abacus.  Or maybe I'd just own a slave.  Or a really well trained Muskrat. :D
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Post by Ross »

By Explorer Replacement, I did not mean it figuratively (which is the way we all use it) I meant the checkbox in the installer which tries to redirect system calls to Explorer to call x2 instead - say, from the start button, or clicking desktop folders, etc.  Essentially it makes it more difficult to open Windows Explorer if you actually wanted to.


Now I see what you meant by Explorer Replacement.
Not, of course, that anyone needs to worry about "touch devices" or anything like that - those aren't intended for (and probably never will be) heavy file-management - they're meant for "content consumption", which suits them fine.  That said, it might be amusing to offer a Structured Clips "app" next to the bog-standard Tiolet-Roll-My-Face "app" and see which proves more popular.


Yeah but I mean about the change of mentality and concepts. People are getting more stressed as each year goes by and they need simpler things. I can imagine this can cause a generation of people less computer-savvy. However, the great majority of people have now a smartphone and some of them are also acquiring tablets, not meant for desktop replacement, of course, but because "things are already there": less time to load an OS and an Internet browser, for instance. In other words, the same people who care about a decent complex file manager like x2 are also people who care about simplicity, not regarding the program itself, but as a lifestyle. Nikos has developed a great program, very complex which requires a lot of labor and brains, but I'm sure he had workflow performance on his mind.

So, bottomline is that people want less clicks, less taps, keys keystrokes to commit a task. By the way did you see the RAR command examples in my first post inside the code tag? They're meant to speed up the process of extracting rar archives. :)

And yes, now I see you're not precise about the ergonomics thing.
So, let me ask you a question: you and Nikos are the same person?? If not, you seem to like him a lot. :)
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Post by Kilmatead »

Ross wrote:...the same people who care about a decent complex file manager like x2 are also people who care about simplicity, not regarding the program itself, but as a lifestyle.
Now we're singing the same song, albeit with different lyrics. :D As you are aware (by acknowledging the possibility of "a generation of people less computer-savvy"), this Simplicity is a bit of an illusion.  The tasks which need doing (regarding professional file-management) don't actually get any simpler, they are instead buried under several layers of abstraction which only make it seem like a simpler interface can do the same job as a more befuddled one... but alas, 'tis not so.

For example, in the same way as Regular Expressions lose their power in direct proportion to how much they're dumbed-down, their "accessibility quotient" thusly rises indirectly.  Current ergonomic thinking would suggest that were we to find a "happy medium" of simplicity (without sacrificing power) we could have the best of both worlds.  And indeed, were we to live in an abstract world that would be not only true, but possibly attainable.  But, curiously, we have to ask ourselves (by living in the "real world" with all its attendant compromises and painful learning curves) would we really want that happy medium if it meant our brains were lobotomised in the process?  Even Ecclesiastes knew that "he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow"... but this was not seen as some kind of negative thing, more a necessary process to maturity wherein we learn that nature abhors innocence (your prognosticated "less clicks, less taps" desire).

The trouble with the Tabletification Paradigm is that it doesn't actually aspire to merely masque [sic] any underlying complexity - it wishes to remove it altogether, leaving the user with a false sense of power - and indeed, robbing him of the very perception necessary to glean insight as to what's below the surface (the famous Mandelbrot Sets residing in Chaos, for example).

Essentially, I'm neither arguing for simplicity, nor against it - but rather that the knucklehead-stuff (like having to remember abstruse behaviour patterns) necessary to compensate for poor-GUI design be eliminated.  Hence the reason I jumped on the bandwagon of this thread's title - but was disappointed to see you only desired an answer to your immediate difficulty, not actually a solution to the bigger picture.  As my background is not technocratic in nature, I find simple answers to complex questions rather unsatisfying, regardless of their expediency - thus this current tangent of ours is much more fun. :wink:

Unfortunately, we are unlikely to transcend the limits of modern ergonomics by vainfully enticing others into a design compromise which they don't even recognise as being necessary.  :cry:  I suspect we are instead to just taste that quiet desperation the poets speak of so frequently these days - what we make of our suffering, however, is more worthwhile than all the keypresses and clicks we might save in the long run.  Rather, a small bit of grace is perhaps saved in lieu to keep the balance in our favour, and our sanity preserved.
Ross wrote:you and Nikos are the same person?? If not, you seem to like him a lot.
Well, I suppose I could be some kind of schizophrenic alter-ego he conjured up one day in a fit of existential escapism hearkening back to the Talking Heads lyrics of his youth...
  • You may tell yourself, this is not my beautiful house
    You may tell yourself, this is not my beautiful wife
Or, I could as easily be some kind of deranged obsessive stalker-type who just randomly chose him as something to fixate upon (in which case, it's the doctored photographs I don't link to which could be incriminating).

Or, most likely, I'm just the comic relief around here who takes any opportunity he can to go off topic in the hopes of exploring the realm of hic sunt dracones - that part of the map that so many tech-minded people have forgotten even exists, as they get too caught up in that "age of simplicity" of yours, seeking only immediate technological answers to eternal philosophical questions. :shrug:
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Post by Ross »

The tasks which need doing (regarding professional file-management) don't actually get any simpler, they are instead buried under several layers of abstraction which only make it seem like a simpler interface can do the same job as a more befuddled one... but alas, 'tis not so.


Yes, but that's how it works, right? Pass of time, competition, other people developing too, plus the feeling I have that more eye candy interfaces (such as Apple software and devices in general) do atract more users, since most of them are not interested in advanced functionalities, or at least they think so. They want the "just works" devices and software.
But, curiously, we have to ask ourselves (by living in the "real world" with all its attendant compromises and painful learning curves) would we really want that happy medium if it meant our brains were lobotomised in the process?  Even Ecclesiastes knew that "he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow"... but this was not seen as some kind of negative thing, more a necessary process to maturity wherein we learn that nature abhors innocence (your prognosticated "less clicks, less taps" desire).


I think we have a little confusion here. One thing is the program to the ordinary user. This is supposed to be comfortable. Other is the program for the power user. This one is supposed to be feature-rich and, like the user, powerful. The point is, they don't exclude each other! For example, I see many rich adolescent girls buy an iPhone just to showoff and take advantage of the SMS app (on-screen keyboard and such). They don't even know how an application (program) works. So, they got a $ 699 device to use 3% of its potential. Still, it serves their needs and it`s a good call-and-sms-device. iPhone is an example of device (yeah, I know we're talking programs, not devices, but the idea still applies) which both serves the regular girl's needs and a demanding geek. Why shouldn't the same philosophy apply to x2? I think Nikos thought power and ease of use. The program can grow both ways with no exclusion! This is why I don't think your RegEx logic is valid in this particular case.
The trouble with the Tabletification Paradigm is that it doesn't actually aspire to merely masque [sic] any underlying complexity - it wishes to remove it altogether, leaving the user with a false sense of power - and indeed, robbing him of the very perception necessary to glean insight as to what's below the surface (the famous Mandelbrot Sets residing in Chaos, for example).


Agreed.
Hence the reason I jumped on the bandwagon of this thread's title - but was disappointed to see you only desired an answer to your immediate difficulty, not actually a solution to the bigger picture.


Wait, this isn't over. I came here to ask a question, yes. And, even with this nice conversation, I think you made it a big deal. Why disappointment? I understand things more than average people as you should have noticed, but I'm still a user, not a developer or programmer, and I'm here to bring the user's perspective.
Or, most likely, I'm just the comic relief around here who takes any opportunity he can to go off topic in the hopes of exploring the realm of hic sunt dracones - that part of the map that so many tech-minded people have forgotten even exists, as they get too caught up in that "age of simplicity" of yours, seeking only immediate technological answers to eternal philosophical questions. shrug


Pleeease, this is not MY age of simplicity! This is not about me, it is about the market, of people in general! And are you sure you want to consider a tech question about a program that philosophical?
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The myth of the ordinary user

Post by Caveatrob »

The ordinary user probably just uses Windows Explorer, or if he's heady with the idea of "freeware," he's loaded up XYPlorer or some other tempting yet ultimately useless piece of garbage.

xPlorer2 isn't going to be recommended in any Dummies books any time soon.

In the old days, we'd do customer profiles and determine who our users were before making changes to a product, being most responsive to those in the forums who could make a good general (or specific) case for a change.

What we wind up getting all the time is something that's 95% of what we need, which then often becomes something that won't solve our problem at all.

"Much good work is lost for a little more.." something or other..
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Post by Ross »

In the old days, we'd do customer profiles and determine who our users were before making changes to a product, being most responsive to those in the forums who could make a good general (or specific) case for a change.


Good to know that! I'll start bombing (moderately) with feature suggestions from now on! Ok?

Back on topic: ok, I get, so this thing will be more like a perfume. Look at Microsoft Office 2010 applications, Word, Excel and Ppt in particular. We can export our ribbon personalizations, which do not constitute the entirety of a user's settings, but, when we import settings from a customization file, they're applied instantly. Clearly, without the need to reopen the program. This would fix the problem I brought, except that this is not really an issue.

:)
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Post by Kilmatead »

(Sorry for the delay in getting back - it turns out that if you rip a phone line out of a house - unintentionally - with a fork-lift, it's not that easy to fix.  Who knew? :oops:)
Ross wrote:And are you sure you want to consider a tech question about a program that philosophical?
The sound you are now hearing is all the regulars around here sighing to themselves and muttering "Bloody hell, here he goes again - didn't you see the sign that said Please Don't Feed The Animals?" :D  How or never, I soldier on...

Without philosophy, we're all no more than a bunch of cloned monkeys scrabbling for the same bag of apples with our genetically flawed appendages.  What good would that be?  Ergonomics is more a philosophy than science, as (for example) a chair is a chair, but the monstrosities designed by Frank Lloyd Wright are about as inviting as pain that just won't shift.  Given my drothers I'd prefer to inflict Thomas More's imaginative cosmology upon the populace rather than Immanuel Kant's dry little diatribe, but we can't always get our own way no matter how much you slap the Buddha around - so I'll save that for another day. :shrug:
Kurt Vonnegut in 'The Sirens of Titan' wrote:Her face ... was a one-of-a-kind, a surprising variation on a familiar theme - a variation that made observers think, Yes - that would be another very nice way for people to look. What Beatrice had done with her face, actually, was what any plain girl could do. She overlaid it with dignity, suffering, intelligence, and a piquant dash of bitchiness.
As you may have noticed, x2's one nod towards distinguishing "Advanced" and "Dummy" options constitutes a checkbox called "Plain Menus" which simply shows or hides some of the potentially lesser-used options from the eyes of beginner users so as not to drown them in sorrows.  This, it could be said, is an ergonomic failure because by hiding things one enforces the belief that out of sight is out of mind, and those users who never see an option probably won't ever be curious as to what good it may be.  Other file-managers tend to be more GUI obsessed, and strive to present the non-"power user" with an interface that is functional and flashy, but leaves the more technical commands to the discretion of menus.
Ross wrote:One thing is the program to the ordinary user. This is supposed to be comfortable. Other is the program for the power user. This one is supposed to be feature-rich and, like the user, powerful. The point is, they don't exclude each other!
As Caveatrob mentioned above, x2 isn't going to be recommended for the caffé latte crowd any time soon - and nor, I suspect, would it appeal to them much.  The user base (judging from the type of people the forum attracts) tends to be the more technically minded individual who likes a bit of "I'll figure this out if it kills me" added to his morning porridge - largely because he's aware that 95% of the difficulties he's facing are up to him to learn.  Much to Nikos' chagrin, those rich adolescent girls who buy iPhones are just never going to be in the demographic no matter what he did.  Thus, he doesn't even bother to cater for them unlike the plethora of other file managers that still hold out the "hope of the balding overweight middle-aged man" and bank on the overestimation of sex appeal.

Lest we get too far beyond the pale with this, we ought remember that we're not actually discussing GUI's here, but simply the amount of extra-curricular nonsense one can tolerate as to how a programme behaves.  You seem to be at great pains to say that the caveats applied to your original settings issue are themselves "not really an issue" - except I'm arguing that they are (or at least should be, thus the burgeoning thread).  I'm also fully aware that Nikos is unlikely to ever address any of them, as when he settles into a routine that "just works" it takes more than "a piquant dash of bitchiness" to get his attention - not that I ever stop trying, of course, on this issue or others.  :wink:
Ross wrote:Pleeease, this is not MY age of simplicity! This is not about me, it is about the market, of people in general!
The trend in recent years is that the ordinary user would prefer to be wholly insulated (indeed, wholly removed, if possible) from the Registry - and x2's recent bow to that (by allowing the use of an INI) is a step in recognising that - though what's ironic is that the "ordinary users" who profess such views do so by not really understanding the benefits of the registry in the first place - they've heard so many negative viewpoints that they don't know how much a file-manager (by definition of the shell) is already dependant upon it.  Not that this would have any impact on your original point, but I just offer it as a suggestion that the nebulous thing called "the market" is not to be trusted, nor kowtowed to, no matter whose Age of Simplicity could be said to have dawned.  Ordinary users, as beatified by "the market" are oft not the best prognosticators of efficient and practical paradigms.  If I had my way, I'd obfuscate the lot of them. :D
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Post by dunno »

Kilmatead wrote:(Sorry for the delay in getting back - it turns out that if you rip a phone line out of a house - unintentionally - with a fork-lift, it's not that easy to fix.  Who knew? :oops:)
LOL
the excitement of living on a estate is a continuous source of amusement  :D

P.S. do remember where the Septic tanks are, your missus will not be amused, as we all know, shyte sticks to blankets.
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Post by Kilmatead »

dunno wrote:...remember where the Septic tanks are, your missus will not be amused, as we all know, shyte sticks to blankets.
Sticks to more than that, I'll tell you - it's one of the few semi-sentient substances known to science.  And Septic tanks seem to have some mystical connection with flooding, like snakes before an earthquake.  I'm one of the few people in the world who actually is qualified to tell his neighbours what they can and cannot eat!  Unfortunately they listen not, chuckle, and continue to create layers and layers of sediment for future archaeologists to mull over.  (And they wonder why I conveniently tie the horses up in front of their doors from time to time - could it be revenge?  We'll never know - for I'm certainly not responsible for what their children step in before they run through the house...  :twisted:)
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