xplorer2 v2.0

bmolony · Post by **bmolony** » 2011 Jun 08, 08:52

Thanks RightPaddock for that.
But I think that is bit more than I wanted.
I was just looking for something a bit more simple and useful.
Listing Duration/Length as a single column would be much more helpful to me.

Post by **nikos** » 2011 Jun 08, 10:22

you can try the new infotip column added with v181.12, this shows the most relevant information for each file type. If it doesn't show what you need you can make it do so!

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jun 08, 10:37

nikos wrote:If it doesn't show what you need you can make it do so!

Umm... do you mean manually, or is there a better trick you've not divulged?

bmolony · Post by **bmolony** » 2011 Jun 08, 10:53

Thanks Nikos for the "infotip".

However I long ago turned off infotips because I found them absolutely annoying.
But I am sure glad that you actually made it possible to turn them off. Most Microsoft products put supposedly helpful "stuff" in like that and give you no control to turn them off.
Infotips do provide helpful information--occasionally. But they also nearly always cover over other information that I want to see all the time.

That is sort of like the new Microsoft Pop-Up Blocker introduced with IE9. Who the hell at Microsoft was stupid enough to think that a Pop-Up Blocker should present it's information messages as a POP-UP???? The old single yellow line at the top was just fine and quite unobtrusive. The new version "pops up" at the bottom of the screen and ends up covering up stuff I want to see. Someone ought to be fired for that!!!

Post by **nikos** » 2011 Jun 08, 11:29

well obviously i mean manually, but for many filetypes the infotip info could be already setup so you don't need to do anything extra

bmolony infotips are annoying but you can now put the information of an infotip in a column using <alt+K> without dealing with the annoying popup. Perhaps it is best suited within an infobar

bmolony · Post by **bmolony** » 2011 Jun 08, 14:40

Nikos, I am not sure exactly what you mean about putting the "information" (which I assume is the same as "contents") of an infotip into an infobar.

But regardless, it seems to me from examining the currently displayed contents of the Length column that the information I want (Duration) is not even available for all relevant file types. Certainly it does show correctly for MP3 files, but it does not show for MID files. RightPaddock pointed out that it is also not shown for MK4, FLV and MPG files. From that I assume there are actually very few file types that are supported for Length.

So my assumption is that Length (Duration, Play Time, etc.) is not relatively available for a wide variety of file types. From that I would assume it would not be available for tokens, infotips, or infobar. The field might be displayable, but the value in the field would still not show.

So as I said up front, I realize this might be quite difficult to implement in X2. That's why I said "maybe this is asking too much to ask" but that "it sure would be nice to have". It may or may not be something you can do.

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jun 08, 15:24

bmolony wrote:So my assumption is that Length (Duration, Play Time, etc.) is not relatively available for a wide variety of file types. From that I would assume it would not be available for tokens, infotips, or infobar. The field might be displayable, but the value in the field would still not show.

It appears for some metadata aspects that the files must be "analysed" first, to glean their particulars. As this is more of a job for a shell extension, taking a sub-link off of RightPaddock's suggestion, you might ask the creator of MediaTab to see if it's possible for him to inject it as column information - it appears he's already done the hard part of getting the information via a shell DLL (it adds a working tab to the "Properties" window), instead of you bothering to run an external programme, so he might find the idea amusing enough to try - as right-clicking every file you want to know details about seems a bit awkward to me. It can't hurt to ask.

bmolony · Post by **bmolony** » 2011 Jun 08, 15:36

Nikos,

Kilmatead suggestion RE MediaTab sounds too good to be true. And everyone knows what to expect when that happens!

But be sure to follow his MediaTab link! It does seem something worth your investigation. It sure seems to support almost any media file type one is likely to encounter. Certainly getting the Length/Duration as a minimum would be great!

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jun 08, 17:28

Er, no - that suggestion was meant for you to suggest the idea to the author of MediaTab.

Nikos has (probably) washed his hands of it already. If you think about it, extracting that sort of metadata has nothing to do with file "management" - as utilities like FolderSize show, all of those "specialised" angles are best done with shell extensions, which x2 openly uses. Nikos, however, doesn't tend to write them himself. If one were created for media files, then those obsessed with photos would want one, then everyone comes out of the woodwork looking for something that is best handled via a third-party. (Or you end up with a file-manager that is so bloated as to have forgotten its roots.) Yes, these things are convenient and nice to have, but you can't cater to every niche in existence, or else you'd end up offering sort-columns for differing types of pornography, which while useful to some

, are truly a few steps beyond the pale. A minimalist philosophy would simply not step down that road in the first place, to the disappointment of some.

Like I said, suggest it to the MediaTab bloke, as he seems happy to specialise in that niche already.

bmolony · Post by **bmolony** » 2011 Jun 08, 18:00

Hmmmm, Kilmatead,

Just like one person's treasure is another's trash,
I guess one person's music is another's pornography, right?

Only I am not sure the logic of those extremes make much sense.

I think it is highly likely the number of Nikos' customers interested in music would greatly exceed those who would be interested in.... Maybe? Maybe not???

But even if we did consider the pornography extreme, those would most likely be video files for which having the Duration/Length available might also be nice. After all, we would still be talking about video files regardless of their content--whether it might be videos of the family or porn.

And certainly X2 already goes part of the way by making it possible to automatically "preview" (play) many file types from within X2's Preview Pane including images and video.

And again, I don't want the world--a full blown set of parameters like that which might be provided by an app like MediaTab. I am sure that would be useful for some people but certainly of little use to most. Whereas Duration might be VERY useful to a wide range of folks--especially if it were available directly within X2 without some huge add-on.

The bottom line is that I believe adding Duration/Length is very likely to make a lot of Niko's customer's happier. Of course, I would be the first who would admit I could be dead wrong. Thus, it is simply meant as a suggestion for Nikos to consider.

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jun 08, 19:11

Philosophically, a case could be made as to whether there is anything other than a perceptual difference between Media and Pornography, but perhaps we should leave that aside for the moment.

The "Quick View" function merely uses the Windows Media Player to achieve its ends... and as such it is automatically dependent upon whether you have the correct codecs installed. For x2 to be completely independent, then logically it would have to start supplying codecs as part of the normal install just so some users can play MKV's or whatever. Would anyone want x2 to go around installing codecs? Probably safe to assume "of course not" - aside from the spotty-faced lad at the back who thinks the world is a one-stop-shop of fast-food, cigarettes, and sex. So we'll leave him aside for the moment, as well.

x2 basically deals with any and all information that is natively available to Windows Explorer itself, as a starting point. This cuts down on the amount of potential conflicts which could arise - Nikos is a one-man show, and so running around keeping up with the latest nonsense from a Java-Update (or whatever) and worrying about whether that will cause conflicts is hardly a useful way for him to waste the few years he has left on this unfortunate planet.

I'm not disagreeing you (well, actually I am, but for the moment pretend that I'm not) - in theory, the idea that x2 should be able to provide all things to all men equally is a laudable one - but just like the French Revolution, Voltaire's personal despair, and Rousseau's social frippery, it is a pipe-dream. From your point of view, you only want a small thing that doesn't seem to be that difficult to achieve, and indeed, why isn't it in Windows in the first place? What is interesting, though, is why there seems to be a dearth of shell extensions devoted to providing the information you want - as obviously it does not appear in Windows either. Especially with the case of Media files, so many third-party media players/editors/rippers all love to "associate" files to themselves and their own self-importance - indeed, many of them will actually supply the information you're looking for in their own bespoke tooltip displays (dbPoweramp comes to mind) - but seemingly always in relation to their own product.

So, x2's pseudo-egalitarian approach is to largely expand on the functionality of what a file managing mechanism is actually for (which has nothing to do with content), and rather focus on the substance holding that content instead. While distinctly less sexy than supplying your own super-codec, in the long run, it never oversteps it's authority, either, and deals with the unsexy minutia of equally important filesystem elements that most people never hear about.

Of course, this is all my own opinion - as you say, Nikos hopefully considers all ideas (that is, after all what this thread is about), but I'm merely positing a practical view from years of observation (always lurk before you join

). Much like any monarch, as unfair as it sounds, functions are not always added because they will make people happier (most men know nothing of happiness anyway) - they are added because they will shut people up. (Something about the plebs "eating cake" comes to mind.)

Don't take that the wrong way - if anything, take it as a suggestion to simply make more noise! Become a pain the in arse. Form up a local militia. Become your own Parent's Association Vigilante Justice for Media Metdata group. Perhaps you will find other users who think the same way, and in the end, actually get your way to happiness. :D

I've found that drawing on the heartstrings regarding his daughter's wishes tends to hold more sway than democratic ideals anyway. Perhaps Vanessa would like a media column all her own? You can bet he would write a shell extension then. All we are, by comparison, are the great unwashed who are forever demanding salvation from a 20-quid piece of software. And that's the way it should be, on both counts. Ironically, that's also why both counts are a pipe-dream - What daughter worth her whit didn't break her father's heart? Is not that the way the Gods have designed our own built-in metadata? We can but hope to reason and suffer in the same breath, for one without the other is the madness and decent of delusion.

(Yes, I know... yada yada ya... "it's my nature," said the serial killer apologetically.

)

bmolony · Post by **bmolony** » 2011 Jun 08, 19:24

Very impressive reply, Kilmatead.
I got a good kick out of it.

Sounds like I need to get in touch with his daughter.
Maybe I could get her on my side.

But once more (with feeling), I would still LIKE to see Duration/Length added for at least some the most common audio/video file types--not all, just some, and only where practical (given the amount of time Nikos has left to live!).

'nuf said, I think.

Post by **nikos** » 2011 Jun 09, 05:42

i bet kilma~1 can copy/paste a registry hack to duplicate the infotip information from the working file types so that the rest can get the same infotip easily!

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jun 09, 06:31

There, you see? He's having a giggle by passing the onus back to me (which is probably what I deserve for bringing up Vanessa's butterfly collection). However, in this instance there appears to be no practical way to real-time implement a kludge - I did look, but there seems to be a good reason why the population of these sorts of shell extensions in the wild is small - even the HydrogenAudio lads rely upon their media-players to manage it more conveniently or it always seems to fall back on the more dedicated things like AudioShell to solve. Seems that if you dip your toe into these waters, you'd have dirty feet forever - but maybe it's my lack of imagination. Anyway, I can't see it without my brain hurting.

Post by **nikos** » 2011 Jun 09, 07:10

look it isn't that hard. There is a hierarchy of infotips:

HKCR\*
HKCR\AllFilesystemObjects
HKCR\SystemFileAssociations
HKCR\somefiletype

let's take .JPG and try to locate its infotip text
HKCR\.jpg doesn't have an infotip entry, so skip to the default type (IrfanView.jpg for my computer): nothing there either

let's try HKCR\SystemFileAssociations\.jpg
bingo! there's the infotip:
infotip=prop:System.ItemType;System.Photo.DateTaken;System.Keywords;*System.Photo.PeopleNames;System.Rating;*System.Image.Dimensions;*System.Size;System.Title

if that didn't work, we could go back to HKCR\.jpg where we see a PerceivedType=image entry, so we go down to HKCR\SystemFileAssociations\image

if that didn't show anything either then the infotip is inherited by Allfilesystemobjects above

let's say that the JPG had a good infotip but the GIF didn't, all you had to do was copy the infotip definition of the JPG to the GIF entry. As this is registry editing you can do it easily with copy/paste and a text editor

if you are smarter you can work straight with perceived types, e.g. audio or video and just change HKCR\SystemFileAssociations

why don't you make it work and then write a blog about it so that i don't have to?