Sort order

Nasruddin · Post by **Nasruddin** » 2004 Mar 21, 18:56

I don't know if I'm the only one having the problem (and I couldn't find anything about it when I search the forum for old posts), but... the sort order for xplorer2 (and 2xExplorer) isn't the same as for Explorer.
I use underscores (_) to make sure that my "main" folders stay at the top, but that only works in Explorer. In xplorer2 underscores get sorted after the digits, but in Explorer they get sorted before the digits.
So... can I fix this, or is it a bug? I'm not using a US version of Windows.
/Nasruddin

Post by **nikos** » 2004 Mar 21, 19:30

there are a few issues with sort order
if you want exactly the same order as explorer (can't imagine why)
you have to use xplorer2 and pick the windows Name column instead of x2's stock name

Nasruddin · Post by **Nasruddin** » 2004 Mar 22, 18:29

The reason I would want the same sort order in xplorer2 is because it's confusing to have different sort orders in different applications. I did a couple of quick test (Word and Excel), and as far as I can see they've all got the same sort order as Explorer (at least when it comes to underscores, digits and letters, did't test anything else).
But, the solution you suggested doesn't seem to work - I'm still getting the same sort order. Just checking that I didn't do anything wrong - I picked the local Name column in the Available Columns list. I restarted xplorer2 as well, but still the same result.

JRz · Post by **JRz** » 2004 Mar 22, 19:00

Nasruddin wrote:But, the solution you suggested doesn't seem to work - I'm still getting the same sort order. Just checking that I didn't do anything wrong - I picked the local Name column in the Available Columns list. I restarted xplorer2 as well, but still the same result.

I think you still managed to pick the wrong 'Name' column

You should select the name column without '[s]' behind it. If you're on a different language version of Windows (non English that is), your native windows 'name' column will have a localised name (confusing, the word name in this context

)

If you select the right column to sort by, it will sort the same as M$ Exploder

Nasruddin · Post by **Nasruddin** » 2004 Mar 23, 09:44

Thanks for trying to help out, but... I did pick the folder with the localized name without the "[S]", and it still sorts incorrectly. I don't think I can insert a screenshot here, but I can give you one if you want. So, I still can't get it work...

And it's not only Explorer - the thing is that in every other program I've tried (including my text editor), the sort order seems to be the same (at least for the stuff that I tested) - which is a different one than in xplorer2.
What I though was that the sort order existed in the locale (i.e. regional settings), and that you could pick it up from somewhere, but then again I'm not a Windows programmer...

Post by **nikos** » 2004 Mar 23, 10:14

all your editors etc (i take it that you are referring to the Open or Save system dialog), use explorer, so it's no surprise that they show the same order!

as JRz said, if you use the "windows" name column and click on it, the sort is provided by explorer, not me. So if it is unchanged, this one is for microsoft!

Nasruddin · Post by **Nasruddin** » 2004 Mar 23, 15:42

I just knew that it would boil down to being the Evil Empire's fault...
Oh, well, at least I know who to blame know. Thanks for trying to help out, guys.

fgagnon · Post by **fgagnon** » 2004 Mar 23, 17:15

Nasruddin,

The reported post-trail isn't entirely consistent.
You should be able to duplicate the Evil~ sortorder using the non-stock Name column in x².
So, unless I misread the forgoing, I think you are still not sorting on non-stock windows name inside x².

(Not sure it matters, but my OS here is win2K)
For me, the sort order of 2X and x² [stock] filenames agree.
As does the sort order of m$ Explorer and x² "Name" filenames.
{It is a bit confusing to describe which name is the non-stock name, and then to assure sorting on it (because its column heading still says "Name"}

The windows filename sort order should be
1. non-alphameric characters, by their ASCII values ...
2. numeric characters, by their ASCII values ...
3. alpha characters, by the ASCII values after conversion to upper (or lower) case.

And, by the above sort rules, filenames prefixed by an underscore "_" will be listed ahead of the alphameric pack.

The 2X & x² filename sort order seems to be strictly by ASCII value of
FILENAME, where FILENAME is the result of converting the lowercase characters in the filename to UPPERCASE.

And, by the latter sort rule, filenames prefixed by an underscore "_" will be listed at the end of the alphameric pack.

(see http://www.asciitable.com/ for list of ASCII character codes.)

One solution without unravelling what is different about your setup is to prefix the foldername/filename with "!" or "! " The exclamation point is at the top of all of the above sortorder rules.

However, I don't particularly like that solution, because it is common practice within organisations to do exectly what you have done to force certian folders (&/or files) to the top of sortlists by prefixing with "_"; and to do otherwise means a change of procedure (and that would be a big deal for our IS dept.).

IMNSHO, I think x² should change its stock filename sortorder to match the behaviour of legacy filemgr apps.

Post by **nikos** » 2004 Mar 23, 18:06

proper lexicographic sort is much slower and i don't see the point really
as long as you get a consistent behaviour, why bother?

fgagnon · Post by **fgagnon** » 2004 Mar 23, 19:22

Aaahh, yes, consistent behaviour -- that's exactly the point of why bother.
The legacy file mgr app, generally endorsed by corporate IS departments, has set a de facto standard.
And quite a few users (& organisations I have seen) use a preceding "_" to intentionally raise certain higher priority folders (& files) towards the top of long lists -- especially for items on large shared networks.
Now if everybody were to be using 2X/x² file mgr, they might all switch to a "!_" prefix for "you-should-look-at-me-first" items; but, alas, the ruling heirarchy is stuck on the legacy file-manager & its sortorder.

BTW - A simple sort strategy that puts alpha-characters (but not numerics) after "_" is to sort on lower(itemname)

Post by **nikos** » 2004 Mar 23, 20:29

well at least you can use the "windows" name column and get the warm feeling of folders sorted like the "good old days"

fgagnon · Post by **fgagnon** » 2004 Mar 23, 20:58

yes, I can.
But ...

Nasruddin wrote:Thanks for trying to help out, but... I did pick the folder with the localized name without the "[S]", and it still sorts incorrectly. I don't think I can insert a screenshot here, but I can give you one if you want. So, I still can't get it work...

So we haven't resolved the original question.

There appears to be something else going on here. What/which "non-US" version of Windows (& language settings) are you using Nasruddin ?
... and what about a Unicode version of x² ?

Nasruddin · Post by **Nasruddin** » 2004 Mar 24, 09:36

I'm using Swedish Window XP - Home at home and Professional at work; same results in both.
And - being a professional translator - I'm totally with you on the consistency issue. Consistency is practically my middle name