the future is here

Tuxman · Post by **Tuxman** » 2011 Jul 16, 14:59

A topic that is done might lead to discussions way beyond its subject. There is no obligation to follow it, you might as well do something more interesting than reading it. Buy you decided that you don't want to do this, so, well, nothing wrong with it, right?

patlange · Post by **patlange** » 2011 Jul 16, 15:59

Tuxman wrote:A topic that is done might lead to discussions way beyond its subject. There is no obligation to follow it, you might as well do something more interesting than reading it. Buy you decided that you don't want to do this, so, well, nothing wrong with it, right?

IF there is no obligation to follow a topic, you are right. I perused the FAQ and I don't see a statement anywhere that a user should stay on topic. However there is this:

What are Moderators?
Moderators are individuals (or groups of individuals) whose job it is to look after the running of the forums from day to day. They have the power to edit or delete posts and lock, unlock, move, delete and split topics in the forum they moderate. Generally moderators are there to prevent people going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material.

So I'm going to go back under my rock and leave it to the moderators.

Tuxman · Post by **Tuxman** » 2011 Jul 16, 16:02

I meant, like: You are not obliged to follow our discussions after the topic you were initially interested in has been finished.

Brig · Post by **Brig** » 2011 Jul 16, 17:02

Kilmatead wrote:In other words, you have to know something about theism before you can be an atheist.

At the risk of irritating those who think this thread should end already, I have to respond to this statement with, "no you don't."

All that's required to be an atheist (defined etymologically) is a rational, self-aware rejection of the idea of god. If there is no good reason to believe that X is the case, you shouldn't believe it. The history of X and all the medieval rationalizations and justifications for it are irrelevant.

Tuxman · Post by **Tuxman** » 2011 Jul 16, 17:04

Basically, you don't even have to have heard of God before. You can't believe in things you never heard of, right?

patlange · Post by **patlange** » 2011 Jul 16, 18:46

Tuxman wrote:I meant, like: You are not obliged to follow our discussions after the topic you were initially interested in has been finished.

Why are you picking on me? :crying:

You stubbornly seem to be refusing to recognize that I criticized no one for being off topic, that obviously I'm interested since not only am I following it, but participated a bit. All I said was that I wasn't going to continue MY participation in the a-theism discussion since it was off topic. THEN I explained WHY when you seemed to object. You couldn't possibly have been SO interested in what I might have had to say that you felt the need to belabor this VERY boring ancillary. PLEASE let it drop.

Tuxman · Post by **Tuxman** » 2011 Jul 16, 18:50

Well, this is teh internetz. I rarely do things I am interested in here, I prefer chit-chat about random topics that come to my mind.

RightPaddock · Post by **RightPaddock** » 2011 Jul 17, 03:46

Kilmatead wrote:
RightPaddock wrote:Just for the record : you can't readily buy a lifetime license via Paypal, ....
The lifetime license is only offered to those who pay via Plimus or ShareIt ....
Just for the record: Of course you can.

Kilmatead - could you try this

Click MORE PAYMENT OPTIONS near the bottom of the Buy Now page, and you should go to the Payment Options page, now click BUY NOW next to the PayPal logo

This is what I get

I see no boxes to tick for options, nor do I see where it asks for your name, the url for the PayPal transaction was https://www.paypal.com/uk ....

If you see something different then perhaps you can post an image

The powers that be might want to consider doing something to ensure that all future purchasers of X2 Pro are made aware of the Assurance & Portable options in a similar tick the box format or some other equally obvious fashion. One way to do that would be to remove the direct Paypal payment option and only offer the Plimus or ShareIt options - these days they both allow actual payment by Paypal.

A couple of months ago I accepted the fact that if I wanted X2V2 then I'd have to buy a new license, that remains true today.

It was only when folks started to comment about the meaning of "Lifetime Assurance" over the past week that I even went looking for it. I was a bit miffed initially when I couldn't even find it, and I was somewhat peeved when I found out that I wasn't offered the optional extra's at the point of purchase because of the payment option I selected.

Its also true that no one is forcing me to even want X2V2.

RP

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jul 17, 07:43

Why are you clicking "More Payment Options"? It clearly says to use that "If you have problems ordering from the above..." Are you unable to order from the main "Buy License" button (big urine-coloured thing, middle of screen)? That has a stock form (Plimus, I guess) which will allow you to order from Credit Card, Paypal, Bank Transfer, bloody carrier-pigeon if you wanted to (though it must be a bloody pigeon - non-bloody ones are no good).

I'll grant you the "more payment" Paypal options page doesn't seem to offer the lifetime thing (Nikos should probably fix that), but as you're clearly not supposed to be using it unless you have a problem with the (rather obvious) main button first, I imagine this snags only a minority of people who were barred by Plimus for some reason.

fgagnon · Post by **fgagnon** » 2011 Jul 17, 12:40

but it also snags those folks who are in the habit of using paypal for most everything ... like me (nowadays, although not a couple of years ago).
And the offer of options is not a "clearly not supposed to be" situation. Folks use what they are in the habit of using. And, to the uninitiated, paypal gives no indication that it's not working: one would need to know that there are additional options before suspecting that something is amiss.

So, yes, nikos should fix it.

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jul 17, 12:57

If you have problems ordering with the default payment processor above

That's not clear?

Considering that the "default payment processor above" works just fine for PayPal, it seems this superfluous-PayPal pseudo-issue is only for those who think going off-piste is somehow more manly than eating quiche in the restaurant with clean windows.

That said, it should either be fixed or deleted so the "special people" can just join the same queue as everyone else who click on urine-coloured buttons.

fgagnon · Post by **fgagnon** » 2011 Jul 17, 14:23

I have problems nowadays sharing my credit information with sites I have not already used. Using paypal has the benefit of not continuing to spread that info around to yet another vendor. That's why I and so many other folks use it in lieu of each vendor's default payment vehicle.

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jul 17, 14:44

That's why nature gave us the ability to tell lies - not just for the express purpose to get women into bed, though that was God's original plan for it - but also to render internet commerce tracking irrelevant. The Plimus PayPal link doesn't require truthful information all it needs is an email address, more than likely the one linked to your PayPal account - though you could probably spoof that too if you felt so inclined.

A separate PayPal button is not in and of itself inherently safer - PayPal is PayPal, as long as you keep a decent password and never use public computers, it's pretty simple and reliable - which is why we like it.

Kilmatead · Post by **Kilmatead** » 2011 Jul 17, 15:18

And besides, as I am hatching a secret plan to bring the Rothschild's Bond Market control to ruin, we'll be switching both the Dollar and the Euro to the Kilmatead Sheep Currency Standard (KSCS) which is far more reliable than that other imaginary money you use now, and it will be completely beyond any government's ability to borrow upon, so it won't be based on debt. Plus it will have the extra added benefit of you giving personal names to each denomination, like Dolly, or JuJu, or Freddie Finkle.

This way your "Pal" will not be some imaginary bloke named "Pay", but actually a real thing with a heart, mind, and urinary-tract to boot. Even the atheists will be happy as sheep don't have lies like "In God We Trust" stamped on their foreheads. They're not only loveable (and smelly) but inherently trustworthy at the same time. And they float, so when the world's oceans rise and everyone else is wiped out, your kids will be safe in friendly hooves.

RightPaddock · Post by **RightPaddock** » 2011 Jul 18, 01:17

There are two pathways to the Payment Options page, via the Buy Now page that I told you about yesterday and there is another one via the Support Page - 5th item down on the left. The Support page is what I have bookmarked for zabkat, so it's quite likely I would have used that link. I can't see anything in the pathway from the Support Page to to Payment Options page regarding "if you have problems", nor lifetime assurance or portable editions. If you can see such things please post an image - with relevant circles and arrows.

Here's why I went for the Paypal option, irrespective of how I got to the Payment Options page. Prior to my purchase of X2 the following occurred:-

Plimus stuffed up an order for some Backup software licenses, I paid $2000 for 80 licenses @ $25 each, but I only got 8 license keys, because 8 and $200 is what went from Plimus to the Backup software vendor.
A few months later Digital River stuffed up an order for 5 copies of a Digital Asset Management product ($90 each = $450), in that case the vendor did not receive any notification of the order.

Both Plimus and Digital River said it was a problem with my corporate credit card, even after my bank & Visa sent them proof that the money had gone into their accounts they continued to maintain that position.

The software vendors accepted the evidence provided by myself and Visa, and they both supplied the relevant number of license keys long before they got their money.

In both cases it took months and letters from Visa's legal eagles before Plimus & Digital River 'fessed up and paid the software vendors - without any interest.

So given an alternative, I'll always take it. And where no alternative has been offered, I've put £10 notes in envelopes and posted them, I've done international transfers via Western Union and I've used direct bank transfers. I'd use an Hawala agent before I'd use Plimus or ShareIt.

RP